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 Post subject: Card counting for black jack
PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 7:00 am 
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born to perform.

Joined: 26 May 2004
Posts: 1691
What book is the best source to learn card counting for black jack? Is that MIT book the one to get or what?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 9:06 am 
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Team Penguin

Joined: 03 Aug 2007
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Location: Continuously practicing, even as I type.
It doesn't seem like it is any different in method than card couting for poker...

Just get a good memory.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 9:09 am 
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born to perform.

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You obvisiouly have no idea then. So why bother post. There is a method... I already have the word/picture association down from training my self to able to remeber any deck of shuffled cards in and out of order. That is apparently half the method to card counting. I just know know the number code systems that is used and other techniques.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 10:13 am 
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Location: Continuously practicing, even as I type.
Spiritkrusher wrote:
You obvisiouly have no idea then. So why bother post. There is a method... I already have the word/picture association down from training my self to able to remeber any deck of shuffled cards in and out of order. That is apparently half the method to card counting. I just know know the number code systems that is used and other techniques.


No, there are several different methods for card counting. To say that I don't know what I am talking about is just fairly ignorant without actually thinking about my posts content.

It is true that you can go at it from hard memory, yes. Of course there are easier ways, yes. But there is no SET method.

One of my favorites was one by Mark Kroner II.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 12:55 pm 
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In blackjack card counting is keeping track of the number of different sorts of cards that have come up. When a deck has a lot of tens, jacks, queens, kings and aces in it it's advantageous to the player. When it has a lot of low cards, 2's through 6's, it's more advantageous to the house than usual.

A card counter will keep track of these numbers usually with one running counter. If they see a 2 through 6, or a red 7, they will add 1 to a number in their head. If they see a ten through ace they'll subtract a number. As the count gets high (depending on the system, somewhere above 12), they will increase their bet significantly to take advantage of the edge they have.

I wouldn't suggest getting into card counting. Firstly you'll need to have perfect basic strategy down, which takes some time to learn. You'll have to know it like the back of your hand too, so you are able to keep count and pay attention to other things while playing. You'll also need to learn some deviations from basic strategy based on your count. You will occasionally make different decisions than you otherwise would since you know more about what's likely to happen than most players.

Then you'll need to learn how much to bet. Since variance is very high in blackjack your biggest enemy in playing is gamble. At your best you've got a small edge, and with high variance it takes a long time for that edge to play out into something concrete. If you don't have a sufficient bankroll the house will simply bust you before you can play enough hands.

The only successful blackjack players I've known have had to play ridiculously high limits to win. To play that high though, you'll need to risk a few hundred thousand dollars. Even then there's no guaranteed win. You have an edge, but it could very easily fall apart on you. Variance is vicious.

The blackjack pit is filled with wanna-be card counters and the casino loves it. Very few counters get good enough to be beating the game, but the possibility of the game being beaten fills the seats with a ton of players that otherwise would never play a table game.

It's also important to realize that once you get your game together and you are a winning player and you're just ready to cash in on your investment of time and energy, the casino will simply back you off.

If you're smart enough to win at blackjack you're smart enough to realize that it's a grind. I've never met a pro BJ player (and I know a few) who suggest taking it up.

Popchris wrote:
It doesn't seem like it is any different in method than card couting for poker...



You don't count cards in poker. The deck is shuffled after every hand so there's nothing to keep track of from hand to hand.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 1:22 pm 
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Well said, you would make more money playing the odds on video poker and it is easier to learn. You won't get rich but some players in Vegas make a nice living at it making a few hundred a day and on a good day maybe in the thousands, but again that assumes you have studied the odds and have a strategy and the nerve to lose some money to make some...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 12:06 am 
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Joined: 14 May 2009
Posts: 276
Location: North of Chicago
I studied card counting for a very long time some years ago. I am not exaggerating this, and many others here will tell you the same, that if you want to actually win with counting cards, you're going to spend many, many, MANY, years of your life mastering it. It can't be a side "hobby," and it can't just be a whim, if you want to get good, it has to be your focus. It can't take priority under anything else. Every night, you practice. When you wake up, you practice. At work, you practice. It was much easier in the old days when only 1 deck was used, but if I handed you six bricks, asked you to mix them up, and then went at a moderate pace through all six, using a classic 1 up 1 down method, I guarentee that even after a month of constant practice, you'd lose count. I spent years on this, and then realized I didn't want to do this for the rest of my life.

The other problem you have is you would need a team if you wanted to make any sort of money without getting caught by the casinos. While it may not be illegal, it's not in your best interest to be seen "stealing" (how casinos view card counting) by people who have vast power over yourself. Problems with finding a team are problems with finding individuals like yourself that you can both trust and are willing to practice as much as you are.

I would highly suggest NOT investing time in blackjack or cardcounting. If you just want to count as a hobby and have no interest in doing it professionally, I thoroughly recommend Wikipedia.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 12:15 am 
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Emperor Penguin

Joined: 22 Mar 2004
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One of my old friends is a master Card Counter, could count 6 decks.
Would go to Vegas and play, eventually they "Caught" him and he is now Black listed- not allowed on the Casino Floor in any high end Establishment. This wasnt something he learned or picked up over night.
Its not illegal, but highly frowned upon, and series things can happen if you are caught.

If you want to win money stick with Craps; that is your best bet.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 8:49 am 
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born to perform.

Joined: 14 Feb 2006
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It really dont matter any more now days ( counting cards ) Everywhere you play 21 thay use like a 5 deck deal.............


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 9:45 am 
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aces_up_41 wrote:
It really dont matter any more now days ( counting cards ) Everywhere you play 21 thay use like a 5 deck deal.............


ITs called a shoe, and yes card counting can still work.


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