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 Post subject: Re: Card control
PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 3:25 pm 
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Penguin

Joined: 27 Mar 2009
Posts: 477
Location: Beeswax, Not Yours Inc.
eostresh wrote:
The book went into the public domain a few years back and if you do a google search for "S.W. Erdnase, Expert at the Card Table" you should be able to find a free download.


thats interesting. i did not know that.
ive been reading that book a lot lately and ive been looking into the history on it. i had no idea that the author was anonymous (s.w. erdnase was the pseudonym of the author). now thats very interesting...


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 Post subject: Re: Card control
PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 4:18 pm 
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Joined: 21 Feb 2003
Posts: 14016
Location: Las Vegas, NV/Albuquerque, NM/Pensacola, FL
The history of Erdnase is really interesting. If you want to learn more, I'd recommend checking out the discussion between Wesley James and Simon Lovell on James' Erdnase set, Darwin Ortiz' Annotated Erdnase, which includes letters to Martin Gardner from the illustrator of Erdnase discussing Erdnase's identity, a book that you'll never find called Who Was Erdnase, and the Facebook/Twitter group ErdnaseInTO.


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 Post subject: Re: Card control
PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 3:14 am 
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born to perform.

Joined: 28 May 2007
Posts: 2753
Now you can get one that even looks like a bible! http://www.penguinmagic.com/specialorde ... hp?ID=8979

And the lord came amongst his people and said "Behold! I bestow upon you the power of the SWE shift!" And man rejoiced this holey gift of legerdemain until man tried to follow the instructions from which man replied...."huh?"


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 Post subject: Re: Card control
PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 12:25 pm 
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Penguin

Joined: 06 Jun 2006
Posts: 206
Location: Hurricane Alley USA
eostresh wrote:
Sounds like we are starting to get off topic here. The topic here is where can I learn card control, not who is the more well read magician. I think we can all agree that every beginner should at least attempt to work through S.W. Erdnase. It was written over a hundred years ago an d the illustrations are not the best but a good chunk of what you will find in any beginner's resource is merely an attempt to explain Erdnase in more modern vernacular with perhaps better illustrations. The book went into the public domain a few years back and if you do a google search for "S.W. Erdnase, Expert at the Card Table" you should be able to find a free download. From there you can get a good idea of what card control and manipulation is all about and start cherry picking other books and DVDs that you think will help you on your journey. There are many options to choose from once you get past Erdnase, RRTCM, Card College, Born to Perform, Darryl's Encyclopedia of Card Sleight, Etc, Etc but the one thing that every single one of the great card men of 20th century had in common. Vernon, Marlo, Miller, Hugard & Braue, Giobbi, Tamariz...they ALL studied their Erdnase. What do you have to lose? It's FREE :D

Here is the biggest problem with "Expert at The Card Table"... it is a difficult read for most of today's young readers and beginners. I believe EATCT can be understood by those who are in the intermediate/advanced phase of their study and shouldn't be read at the beginning. (I was turned off to learning card SOH in the beginning many years ago back in the '70s because I first read EATCT before reading the basics) No one is an expert at the the beginning and it takes years to become one...so why tackle this advanced book in the beginning?

RRTCM is geared more to the beginner and so it is recommended by the masses. I don't condone that. But, I recommend CC to the more serious student who has already exhausted the books that deal with basics and wants to advance to the intermediate/advanced phase of their study. CC (5 volumes) is a compendium of card SOH/effects that I myself use mainly as a source of reference.

For example the Double Undercut is categorized as a Transfer Cut not a control as many have stated. When the sleight was originally introduced (Dai Vernon), it was used to transfer the top card to the bottom and vice versa. Later it was used by many as a control (which Dai detested).

The sleight can be found in CC volume 1 chapter 6 entitled "Transfer Cuts". There are better controls out there such as Marlo's Deliberate Side Steal, the Classic and Turnover pass, etc.

If you are a beginner and wish to learn card SOH as a hobby then RRTCM by Hugard/Braue is a great value for the money...if you wish to continue to become a serious student and are willing to save your money, then I recommend CC by Roberto Giobbi...it's the best bang for your bucks!

Best regardz...
Olmagi52 :D 8) :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Card control
PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 1:13 am 
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born to perform.

Joined: 28 May 2007
Posts: 2753
Meh? I see most of your points. I still think it is the best place to start. You won't get through it all. You will learn many basic shifts, false shuffles, and other controls. Most of the easy stuff is explained just fine. It is the more complicated/advanced moves in the book that get confusing. Most of us come back to this one as intermediate magicians hoping to gain some wisdom from the past. Therefore, we tend to gloss over the beginner stuff because we already know most of all that. So the book gets a bad rap as far as a beginners guide goes. I wish I had just started here. It would have saved me a lot of time in the long run. If I had I'm sure I would have had to put it down, move on to Royal Road, maybe Card Colledge, and then come back to it, but at least I would have had a solid foundation in card control. And again....it's free :D


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 Post subject: Re: Card control
PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 6:32 am 
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Penguin

Joined: 24 Apr 2007
Posts: 485
Location: California
Here are some of the books/DVD's that I used to learn all sorts of card controls.

Mark Wilson's Complete Course in Magic - This was the first book I bought when I was either 9 or 10 years old. It has great descriptions and pictures to go along with them to further help you understand how to accomplish them.

The Royal Road to Card Magic DVD Set - This helped me further understand all of the aspects on card control, although instead this time it helped even more by watching R. Paul Wilson perform each of the controls.

Expert Card Technique - This book was quite confusing when I first bought it, and I'd be lying if I said it didn't take me awhile to truly understand each and ever card control sleight.


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