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 Post subject: The jog - neatly or chaotically?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 8:02 am 
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Joined: 25 Jan 2011
Posts: 49
Hey guys,

I'f been using jogs from my first day of magic. And in the beginning i neatly ran one card (for the injog), after which I precisely continued my shuffle on the non-jogged part of the deck. Squaring up afterwards.

But after a month or so i started doing a very chaotic jog. I simple shuffled off a stack of 4 - 5 cards and just continued shuffling. And sealed the deal with a undercut and after that I squared. I really prefered this method as it completely hides you. And its much more casual, and natural. (and yes every single time I had succes :P)

On the other hand every single magician i have spoken to keeps advicing me to do it neatly...

Whats your view on the jog?


Last edited by daniellange on Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The job - neatly or chaotically?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 8:23 am 
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Joined: 26 Sep 2004
Posts: 224
Location: Sydney, Australia
Quote:
On the other hand every single magician i have spoken to keeps advicing me to do it neatly...


Well 'every' magician is an idiot.

This is a magician (me), telling you that you should do it in the way that suits your other shuffles and looks and feels more natural to you.
Lennart Green drops cards all over the table like somebody who can't even handle cards, because it suits his persona.

If you shuffle chaotic, good for you. Keep it that way.


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 Post subject: Re: The job - neatly or chaotically?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 2:54 pm 
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born to perform.

Joined: 28 May 2007
Posts: 2753
Most I have heard from advise a chaotic jog to obfuscate the jog on the off chance someone catches a flash.


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 Post subject: Re: The jog - neatly or chaotically?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 7:30 pm 
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born to perform.

Joined: 20 Jun 2007
Posts: 2200
Location: www.mymagic reviews.wordpress.com
I try to shuffle somewhat "chaotically" because I do think it's more disarming to the spectators; how could you cheat if you can barely handle the cards normally? Also Harry Lorayne does his jog shuffles like that and I have seen how deceptive a simple jog shuffle can be.


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 Post subject: Re: The jog - neatly or chaotically?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 7:11 pm 
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Joined: 19 Dec 2010
Posts: 83
daniellange wrote:
Hey guys,

I'f been using jogs from my first day of magic. And in the beginning i neatly ran one card (for the injog), after which I precisely continued my shuffle on the non-jogged part of the deck. Squaring up afterwards.

But after a month or so i started doing a very chaotic jog. I simple shuffled off a stack of 4 - 5 cards and just continued shuffling. And sealed the deal with a undercut and after that I squared. I really prefered this method as it completely hides you. And its much more casual, and natural. (and yes every single time I had succes :P)

On the other hand every single magician i have spoken to keeps advicing me to do it neatly...

Whats your view on the jog?


I think you are going about it correctly..

Now, my response is from the real gambling world, and not doing a tricks. They are related, because they use most of the same tools.. But, the bottom line in BOTH is to be "out of sight"/"nobody the wiser".. that should be the goal.

From your description that is the same way I would do my run ups.. My fingers could count off up to 15 cards by feel and mumbling to myself. If I missed a count, I could feel it..

Here is a basic run up that I used with the injog.. By the way, I had done and practiced using the out-jog to, to form a cull, but didn't like it..Because it can be seen from the front by an observant observer..The in jog was sufficient..

This is for 5 handed 5 card stud, I am backing myself up with aces..

Two aces on top the deck, I run 4 cards on top, INJOG, and keep running cards on top.. Hit the injog, throw that to the top. Now, I take 5 OFF, THROW THEM BACK ON TOP, and in one fluid motion, proceed to run 4 on top of that, injog, and run more cards, hit the injog and throw my cull to the top of the deck.

Now, time to split the deck with my cull on top and put in an invisble crimp. I fold the cards toward me when I do the split shuffle, that is to hid the cull i have on top. Most of the time for the crimp, all I need to do is slightly bend one side of the split deck.. Then when I put them together, I even push that in. The crimp is invisible, but like a magnet for anybody that comes close to it. if they cut close to it, the other cards hold, and the crimp releases..:)

I have had hinky players (hinky=suspicious)cut right in the crimp and feel the sureness of it, and reshuffle the cards..:)

Back to what you are doing. Yes, used the injog, it is the workhorse and you don't want to be too neat..neatness draws attention. Not that you got to be sloppy, but showing expertises in card handlling puts you in a suspicious window. And that my friend is what you want to avoid at all times.

Even doing tricks, you don't want peeps thinking you are doing some tricks by neat card handling... Now, I could be wrong on that last point, but all my experiences come from using it on real people, real live action.. I want something that will get the job done, get the money, and nobody be the wiser..

ceh


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 Post subject: Re: The jog - neatly or chaotically?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 10:48 pm 
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Joined: 26 Dec 2010
Posts: 3
Does anyone still read Erdnase?

Anyways, he advises it be done sloppily and says that it actually looks better that way than if the cards were very neat. Furthermore, after the jog the hand should slowly get closer to the original running position. Don't just jog the card and then abruptly return to the former position.

For a better description of this advice see Page 14 (Dover edition) of Erdnase: "To Retain Bottom Stock and Shuffle Whole Deck"


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 Post subject: Re: The jog - neatly or chaotically?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 8:46 am 
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born to perform.

Joined: 19 Nov 2006
Posts: 2571
I do everything the messy way (as in not neatly, not like lionel messi), I don't exaggerate the messiness like Lennart Green or Dani DaOrtiz, I'm going for the "casual" look, like someone who isn't very good with cards but knows how to shuffle a deck.
It helps in hiding almost every sleight I use, from thumb counting to palming.


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