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bobo or no bobo
yes 88%  88%  [ 43 ]
no 12%  12%  [ 6 ]
Total votes : 49
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 1:46 pm 
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Frijid_Pink wrote:
clarissa35f wrote:
Say it takes 9 months with Roth's DVD set , it might take him a year with Bobo. Just as an example. Chances are a person that does not learn well from books may never learn from reading Bobo...but let's just say it takes a year from reading Bobo.


This kinda makes me wonder though! ... how do kids these days learn anything in school if they have difficulity learning from books ? ... or are the teachers now teaching with DVD's ?


How is this relevant? How come you are on an online forum? 1000's of magicians did not have an internet to learn from... makes me wonder how they ever became magicians without it. The fact that you are here posting shows you are using a resource that those that came before us did not have.

The " Books are better" is just a bias many older magicians share. not all... but many do.

Just because a kid learns from books in school does not mean he HAS to limit himself to books when learning magic. If he learns faster using a DVD, and that gets him all hot about performing. And eventually earning money from it, while if he had limited hiomself to books, may have been turned off to the whole thing...or it would have taken him longer to learn...or it may have been a harder process... why insist they do it the slow and hard way, when there is no need? Just because that was the way you learned?

The DVD is costlier up front. But it is up to each aspiring magician to decide for him or herself , How they learn best. It is up to them to decide if they get more " bang for their buck" from $100 Roth DVD set, or froma $ 8 Bobo book.

If they take well to books, then Obviously Bobo is the way to go. But if it is more effortless and fun for us to learn from Roth's DVD's... why look down your noses at us?

What about Dyslexic Magicians? Or Illiterate magicians? Or magicians that do not read the language the book is printed in? Should they just say to themselves.." Gee I want to be a magician, but all these older more experienced magicians are saying if I cannot learn from a book, sucks to be me. maybe I'll just give up."...

Well, others may take that course...me I'll just get my DVD's...and Books... I mean come on.. a Movie costs between $19, and $28. What's an extra 6 to 8 bucks? As someone said. You can make $30 mowing someone's lawn or shovelling snow from in front of someone's car...

If the DVD's cost 100's of bucks I would agree... but... $ 30?

I don't think this is so much a " money" issue, as it may just be an envy issue... " We didn't use DVD's, neither should you... Houdini didn't use DVD's." Guess what? He didn't belong to Penguinmagic either. And he was a terrible magician. Maybe DVD's might have helped him improve? Who knows?


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 6:25 pm 
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You seem to act like Frijid is a younger guy like me and you. I don't know his exact age, but I know he's about the age of 60, and has been doing this for a long time, and therefore knows what he is talking about. Just sayin'. :roll:


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 6:27 pm 
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adjones wrote:
You seem to act like Frijid is a younger guy like me and you. I don't know his exact age, but I know he's about the age of 60, and has been doing this for a long time, and therefore knows what he is talking about. Just sayin'. :roll:


I got ya, i don't have a clue... I'll take my cue and shut up :-)

Especially since I seem to have stepped on some people's sacred dogmas. I'll leave the DVD vs Book debate alone. People like pulling the " well, we've been around here a LOT longer than you " card, and do not address a single point posted. Typical... I'll just leave this one be... Books is best :-)


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 12:47 am 
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clarissa35f wrote:
adjones wrote:
You seem to act like Frijid is a younger guy like me and you. I don't know his exact age, but I know he's about the age of 60, and has been doing this for a long time, and therefore knows what he is talking about. Just sayin'. :roll:


I got ya, i don't have a clue... I'll take my cue and shut up :-)

Especially since I seem to have stepped on some people's sacred dogmas. I'll leave the DVD vs Book debate alone. People like pulling the " well, we've been around here a LOT longer than you " card, and do not address a single point posted. Typical... I'll just leave this one be... Books is best :-)


Actually 64 in few months.

No big deal jonesy ... we're all her just voicing our opinions anyway.

I'm not saying Books are best ... all I'm saying is, as I was the age of most of the youngsters here all I had to learn from was books ... at that time magic visual media didn't exist ... same with my education ... apart from maybe an ocassional 16mm film we were taught, read and learned from books exclusively.

You'll have to excuse me now ... I'm gonna pull out my copy of J.G Thompson's Miracle Makers and read about some great magic for a while. :lol:


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 3:25 am 
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I wrote an article on videos vs books to be included in my book awhile back. Although I am from the old school of book learning, I am never one to shun new and innovative technology. I like the visual references that allow me to study and learn from other performers, not copy them. Growing up alone with basically no other magicians around me, I never had the advantage of seeing other performers live very often. At least not close-up.

Video is good for referencing and viewing the "timing" of a sleight, that is hard to convey through written words alone. Personally I believe they go well together, and neither should be a replacement of the other. I have close to a thousand books, and not a whole lot of DVDs yet, but I love the classic DVDs by some of the greats. I think video is something to be embraced, not bashed simply because we didn't have it growing up.

The only real disadvantage of DVDs is they are more expensive, and you get a lot less information. Which is why I shop very carefully and make sure I get good value for my money. Back when I began magic there were no demos, only very sketchy catalog descriptions, all in black and white. Then you had to wait 6-8 weeks for your stuff to arrive! Kids these days don't know how good they have it. But then again do they?

Someone like myself who has already put the hard work in, and earned "the right of passage" so to speak; can appreciate this new techology even more. But even I buy DVDs sparingly. Also the MCM DVD with Ben Salinas is great. But the only drawback with DVDs is that you don't get near as much info as you do in books. However you can still learn from either.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 10:44 am 
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Frijid_Pink wrote:
clarissa35f wrote:
adjones wrote:
You seem to act like Frijid is a younger guy like me and you. I don't know his exact age, but I know he's about the age of 60, and has been doing this for a long time, and therefore knows what he is talking about. Just sayin'. :roll:


I got ya, i don't have a clue... I'll take my cue and shut up :-)

Especially since I seem to have stepped on some people's sacred dogmas. I'll leave the DVD vs Book debate alone. People like pulling the " well, we've been around here a LOT longer than you " card, and do not address a single point posted. Typical... I'll just leave this one be... Books is best :-)


Actually 64 in few months.

No big deal jonesy ... we're all her just voicing our opinions anyway.

I'm not saying Books are best ... all I'm saying is, as I was the age of most of the youngsters here all I had to learn from was books ... at that time magic visual media didn't exist ... same with my education ... apart from maybe an ocassional 16mm film we were taught, read and learned from books exclusively.

You'll have to excuse me now ... I'm gonna pull out my copy of J.G Thompson's Miracle Makers and read about some great magic for a while. :lol:


Awsome Frijid I know we are all voicing our opinion. I appreciate the oppurtunity to learn from you. All the experience you have is to be valued.

This was not addressed to you, but adjones. He was applying the Logical fallacy of appealing to an authority figure. Since you are over 60, and have been doing this a long time, then since you " know what you are talking about" he is implying that I don't know what I am talking about. And yet at no time did he comment on anything I had to say that had substance. Just.." go away kid, you know little he knows lots."

I sincerely hope that not everyone here is like that. I do feel that I have a LOT to learn. But I also feel i have a lot to contribute.

That having been said, since my Roth VHS's are losing their tracking, I'll be watching David Stone's DVD.

And Frijid I look foreward to reading more of your posts.. :-)

One last point on the Book vs. DVD. My daughter wants to be a Card magician. But when I reccomend Card College to her, she tells me " But...I've been reading ALL day!!!" To her reading...even if it is about Card magic is a chore. But if I pop One of Ammar's DVD's she is right next to me with her pack of cards. ( she is 16, short, has small hands.. can anyone make any reccomendations? are there, junior sized cards out there?)

Most kids associated DVD's with Video Games and Movies... fun stuff... they associate books with " school" Not always fun stuff. So sometimes they come into the learning experience witha different outlook?

Anyway, My views are well establ;ished by now... I Like Both for different reasons. I think that Both can be used to learn better than if you had only one or the other. But if the pocket is pinching, and you cannot afford DVD's by all means... Bobo is the way to go. Save up, and pick up Roth when able though...


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 10:59 am 
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Bridge sized cards work great, used them when I was about 7-10 almost 30 years ago. I have literally hundreds of magic books, close to a thousand overall, and several thousand other books—however I love DVDs as I feel they compliment books very well.

I love seeing others perform from the privacy of my own home, as there are no magicians in my local area. Also as I already stated it is great to be able to see the timing of sleights, misdirection, and patter etc.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 11:26 am 
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sirbrad wrote:
Bridge sized cards work great, used them when I was about 7-10 almost 30 years ago. I have literally hundreds of magic books, close to a thousand overall, and several thousand other books—however I love DVDs as I feel they compliment books very well.

I love seeing others perform from the privacy of my own home, as there are no magicians in my local area. Also as I already stated it is great to be able to see the timing of sleights, misdirection, and patter etc.


Thanks for the reccomendation I'll get her a few decks :-)


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 12:38 pm 
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Yeah no problem, check it out.

http://penguinmagic.com/specialorderproduct.php?ID=5580

http://penguinmagic.com/specialorderproduct.php?ID=5579

It is very easy to get spoiled on these, watch it. :) Especially when practicing one hand shuffles and P******. But as shown they are great for small hands.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 4:42 pm 
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clarissa35f wrote:
I got ya, i don't have a clue... I'll take my cue and shut up :-)

Especially since I seem to have stepped on some people's sacred dogmas. I'll leave the DVD vs Book debate alone. People like pulling the " well, we've been around here a LOT longer than you " card, and do not address a single point posted. Typical... I'll just leave this one be... Books is best :-)


I was in no way saying you had nothing to contribute, or in fact that you knew less than him. Just sayin' that I do look up to him, because I know he is a whole heck of a lot more experienced than me and you... put together. I myself am a noob, and although I do feel I have learned quickly since starting, I know I have a lot to learn, and I'm not always right.

But, since you see to be so focused on me just "dogging" on you, and not contributing the the thread:

I think DVDs and books are both great. All of this has been said before, but books give you more material for your money, but DVDs provide you with a visual reference of what to do, how to do it, when to do it, etc. Plus you get to see the performer perform (most of the time), which is always fun.

I have more DVDs than books, but barely. They both have their advantages and disadvantages, and I intend to use them both to the best of their ability for a long time to come. Nothing I said hasn't been said before in this thread, and other threads like it, but those are my opinions.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 8:13 pm 
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I've been through a slew of books over the past 2 years... haven't bought a single DVD, although I will admit to having examined a few videos online that most regulars here would probably disapprove of..

In any case, there's a lot implied in a book, a lot of stuff you either have to read out from between the lines, or, as in my experience, you have to figure out on your own after practicing a move the wrong way for a month or two...

More than a few times I've worked and worked and worked on something that seems perfectly reasonable on paper... and then one day I come up with a very slight adjustment that makes it seem simple.

Could I have saved myself a month or two of practice, if I'd known that tiny trick beforehand? If I'd seen it demonstrated on video? Hard to say... I'm still just fooling around...

I will say that I do get a certain satisfaction from those tiny discoveries... even if i never perform for money. I suspect I'm still years away from that.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 3:30 am 
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:lol: I got a chuckle out of this ...

A person on another Forum posted something about "What's new in Magic?" ... another person responded ...

"have you heard of this new tarbell course in magic? it is pretty amazing. someone took all of the hot new DVD effects and put them into book form.

i don't know how well it will sell though. this new method of learning magic is too hard. i mostly just want to learn the new tricks right away using visual learning."

:lol:


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 8:44 am 
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Frijid_Pink wrote:
:lol: I got a chuckle out of this ...

A person on another Forum posted something about "What's new in Magic?" ... another person responded ...

"have you heard of this new tarbell course in magic? it is pretty amazing. someone took all of the hot new DVD effects and put them into book form.

i don't know how well it will sell though. this new method of learning magic is too hard. i mostly just want to learn the new tricks right away using visual learning."

:lol:


LOL... you know something Frijid? you may have a Point... But I am glad he discovered the " new" Book version of Tarbell... it might be a cheaper version of the DVD set. lol....

Might be cool if young magicians gave the new Book versions a try from time to time. I Know Books are an untested medium, but they do have a few good ones out there.. :P


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 12:09 pm 
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sirbrad wrote:
Back when I began magic there were no demos, only very sketchy catalog descriptions, all in black and white. Then you had to wait 6-8 weeks for your stuff to arrive! Kids these days don't know how good they have it.


Indeed! I recently found an old magic catalog from my youth (circa 1974-75). I had given up magic back in the mid 1970s and just restarted magic in my mid 40s. How things have changed; online forums, user reviews of tricks, video demos, and DVDs.

I have a little essay with an image from my old magic catalog on my blog. Scroll to the bottom to see one of these fine black and white images from this catalog.

http://magic-yeti.blogspot.com/2007/12/basement-secrets.html


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 12:58 pm 
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Yep ... I fondly remember those old ads and catalogs :) ... those were the good 'ol days when our magic secrets weren't splattered all over the internet like on Youtube and such.


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