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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 5:20 pm 
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born to perform.

Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Posts: 898
Bluebackedcards wrote:
magikrn wrote:
Only the lazy and unmotivated need visual aids..... :roll:

couldn't disagree more. there are many different learning styles, i happen to to be a visual learner, as i am sure that many people here are. if you learn better from a dvd, then by all means get a dvd, and no you are no lazy



I learned a lot from Sesame Street, that show is full of visual aids :-)

Ok Seriously, I own Bobo's and while it is an awesome resource i can understand that not everyone takes to one format better than another. I think a lot of the " anti DvD - Pro Book", debate may just be adjusting to new technology.

In The 1880's Magic was revolutionized by the publishing of a book. Prof. Hoffman's Modern Magic. He was vilified by magicians everywhere for " exposure". Yet, many people that may never have learned magic, had their start from reading it.

Until then a person learned magic, by being an assistant for who knows how many years... sort of like being an apprentice at a craft. The idea of buying a book, and learning the secrets that way was unheard of, and looked down upon. Interesting parallels.

Some say " There is more bang for the buck from buying a book, than a DvD." And they are correct, but only for those that learn from a book. I have seen many look down their nose at people that learn better from DvD's as though being unable to learn from a book meant there was something wrong withg the aspiring magician. Personally while I get more bang for the buck from reading card College, i know there are some that if you gave them the set for 2 bucks might learn nothing from it.


Another way of looking at it is, not so much that you get " More bang for your buck from books." But that.." You pay more for the visual aids."

Not all of us are the same, no reason why some should not be a part of our community simply because they do not take as well to books. Remember there was a time when Books were also seen as ' unconventional" " The only true way to learn magic is as an apprentice to a real magician." etc...

I Love Books, but I have to admit, sometimes a DvD can make it so much easier to practice. If I misunderstand Bobo's instructions I am learning improperly...and short of taking a class for a couple hundred bucks I would not know what I was doing wrong... But pop in a $30 DvD and I learn properly... so would you say that " DvD's are a better bang for your buck when compared to taking a class from a Magician"? Or are we " paying more money for the personalized instruction" ? Or would it be simply an alternative to books, or teachers? or maybe something that supplements both or either?

Just my humble opinion.


PS. To those that say "what DvD did Houdini or Blackstone learn from?"It is not relevant. Just curious...Did Houdini or Blackstone have access to penguinmagic.com? What online forums did they frequent? Following this reasoning...No one should be here. After all if neither Houdini, nor Blackstone needed access to the internet to learn magic, we shouldn't either. Doesn't that sound silly? If you don't think it sounds silly, then.,..ummm why are you here? You should only be writing to magazines, and meeting magicians in person. oh Live someplace out of the way where you cannot access magicians personally? tough ?? Doesn't sound cool.

Each generation should take advantage of the technology available to it. DvD's are an option, a more expensive option that is balanced by the benefit gained from seeing a sleight with it's proper context and timing, performed properly. The sooner we learn it properly, the less we need to unlearn, and relearn. If a picture is worth 1000 words how many words is a 5 minute video clip worth?

Whatever floats your boat. If you cannot abide a DVD do not use it, but I don't see anything positive in sneering down our noses at those that preferr DvD's to Books. I Love My Books, but I also love my DvD's :-)


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 2:08 am 
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Emperor Penguin

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Location: Phoenix, AZ. "The Valley of the Sun"
I wholeheartedly agree with you clarissa35f ...
I say learn from what you learn from best, whether it be Books or DVD's ... but at the same time don't discount one or the other.

I mostly learned from Books and Instruction Sheets with nothing but the printed word, photos and illustrations. I have some magic DVD'S myself ... but when I was growing up Books were my only option ... at that time VCR's and DVD'S were in the distant future.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 4:04 pm 
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Penguin

Joined: 13 Apr 2005
Posts: 166
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the books ARE visual learning... I suggest you check out some online vids of Bobo's coin sleights, as this would help supplement the book.

Here you go:

http://www.magicvideodepot.com/main/act ... _Basics_1/
http://www.magicvideodepot.com/main/act ... _Basics_2/
http://www.magicvideodepot.com/main/act ... alments_2/
http://www.magicvideodepot.com/main/act ... cealments/
http://www.magicvideodepot.com/main/act ... ishes_101/


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 10:47 pm 
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born to perform.

Joined: 27 Dec 2005
Posts: 2333
Location: turlock california
David Stone. I said it before and I say it again. (At the risk of sounding british) It is Brilliant ! Both the first and the second are amazing.

http://penguinmagic.com/specialorderproduct.php?ID=4501


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 11:28 pm 
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clarissa35f wrote:
EDITED TO CONSERVE SPACE


Alright Clarissa35f, you can stay. Honestly, it's great to see new users here that are really contributing to the forums. Glad to have you here.

As for the Books/DVD debate, I've posted a full essay on it. I don't see why so many magicians want the new crowd to go through the same trials instead of being able to use modern technology to learn. I'm sure that if the debate was Roth vs Bobo, the judgment would be a little different. The issue isn't books vs. DVD, it's young magicians/Penguin vs. the world. I had a 12 year old come to me at the shop when I was working that was told to avoid Penguin by a "pro." I just don't see it.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 8:46 am 
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born to perform.

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exodus wrote:
clarissa35f wrote:
EDITED TO CONSERVE SPACE


Alright Clarissa35f, you can stay. Honestly, it's great to see new users here that are really contributing to the forums. Glad to have you here.

As for the Books/DVD debate, I've posted a full essay on it. I don't see why so many magicians want the new crowd to go through the same trials instead of being able to use modern technology to learn. I'm sure that if the debate was Roth vs Bobo, the judgment would be a little different. The issue isn't books vs. DVD, it's young magicians/Penguin vs. the world. I had a 12 year old come to me at the shop when I was working that was told to avoid Penguin by a "pro." I just don't see it.


First thanks for the welcome :-) I know i don't know a lot, but I think I have gleaned some valuable insight in my 6 years that i have been performing as an amature. My friends have asked me why I don't go pro...My answers have been... 1) lack of material, 2)lack of practice time...but they see it for what it is...3) lack of nerve.

Because of this place Excuse #1 is going bye-bye... and I am making time for practice, so excuse #2 will be dealth with as well... that just leaves excuse #3. And that can only come I see it through performing.

Half the time I fear my DL will be spotted. ( Getting Greg Wilson's Double Take ) or maybe I'll lose my break... but slowly, I am losing that as well... as soon as I start making money I'll let everyone know :-)

Lastly. I do not know how anyone can tell anyone " Avoid Penguin"... I used to do all my shopping at Tannen's until I discovered this place... if it were ONLY for the stuff I could buy here, and the discounts and deals this place still ROCKS.... But add the forums and well... As you can probably see I make it a point to come here at least once a day :-)

Keep on with the awsome advice... I am eating it up like cream :-)

" An intelligent man learns from his mistakes. A wise one, from the mistakes of others."


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