View Cart | View Account | Help
Order by phone: 800-880-2592
Check out our favorite NEW ARRIVALS
Need it fast? Order before 4pm Eastern and your order ships SAME DAY.

All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 41 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 8:56 pm 
User avatar
Offline
Team Penguin

Joined: 27 Nov 2006
Posts: 2713
Yes I agree with miniserb. But there is NO WAY Kenner created this. NO WAY this is such a new trick. If the first version was in his book then this is only around 20 years old. I highly doubt that. I am almost certain there was something before Kenner's and he certainly is not the best at it. You are saying there is nothing like this in apocalypse or tarbell or Mark Wilson's CCIM. You can't even say that you are not implying this.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 9:27 pm 
User avatar
Offline
born to perform.

Joined: 02 Mar 2005
Posts: 2784
Chris Kenner DID create Three Fly, a long time ago. Once he made the handling to his liking, then he published in in Totally Out of Control. Get your facts straight, I know this stuff. Jonathan Townsend is going to claim he created Three Fly, but he didn't. Visual Coins Across, as published in Genii Magazine, is not a Three Fly. Chris Kenner DID get his inspiration from Townsend, but Townsend DID NOT create it.

No way? Really? Get your facts straight.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 9:41 pm 
User avatar
Offline
born to perform.

Joined: 13 Feb 2006
Posts: 1759
Location: Practicing in front of a mirror
magicman4646 wrote:
Chris Kenner DID create Three Fly, a long time ago. Once he made the handling to his liking, then he published in in Totally Out of Control. Get your facts straight, I know this stuff. Jonathan Townsend is going to claim he created Three Fly, but he didn't. Visual Coins Across, as published in Genii Magazine, is not a Three Fly. Chris Kenner DID get his inspiration from Townsend, but Townsend DID NOT create it.

No way? Really? Get your facts straight.


Yes, Chris Kenner did create 3Fly. But it was first published in Magic Man Examiner (1991) and Three Fly. His final version was published in TOOC in 1992.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 11:30 pm 
User avatar
Offline
Team Penguin

Joined: 27 Nov 2006
Posts: 2713
So you are telling me that nobody has ever seen it, published it, thought of it, or done it before kenner? Kenner is the magicman who walks in and comes up with this before anybody in history. Ever think that people dont sell everything they created? There is no way possible that anybody could know if he was the first creator!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 1:42 am 
User avatar
Offline
born to perform.

Joined: 27 Dec 2005
Posts: 2333
Location: turlock california
no, they're correct. But one thing they are leaving out is that Gary Kurtz also created a three fly independently in his FREAKING SUPER AWESOME routine called Trio. I'm not sure who came up with it first but i'm pretty darn sure that they both came up with it individually. Kenner gets credit for it because he published the three fly with nothing else surrounding it. Seems kind of lame that gary doesn't get credit just because he created it in a better, fuller, more diverse routine.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 1:53 am 
User avatar
Offline
born to perform.

Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Posts: 3462
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
girspiggy wrote:
So you are telling me that nobody has ever seen it, published it, thought of it, or done it before kenner? Kenner is the magicman who walks in and comes up with this before anybody in history. Ever think that people dont sell everything they created? There is no way possible that anybody could know if he was the first creator!


For someone who pushes research so much, you should do your own. Kenner created Three Fly as we know it. Acebrawler also touched on Gary Kurtz's routine, Trio, which features a Three Fly type sequence. In Totally Out of Control, it's called Menage et Trois, and it was also published on its own in a booklet called Three Fly.

-JT


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 11:26 am 
User avatar
Offline
Moderator

Joined: 10 Sep 2004
Posts: 8861
Location: Las Vegas
The key phrase in all of this is the term "Three Fly."

Chris created the *name* "Three Fly" but the routine was derived from observing the work of others.

So, when we talk about "Three Fly" we are saying that Chris popularized the derivative routine that goes by that name, not the original concept of a "Visual Coins Across" transposition which was first shown to Chris by Jonathan Townsend several years earlier.


Last edited by DaveV on Fri Nov 07, 2008 11:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 11:29 am 
User avatar
Offline
Team Penguin

Joined: 27 Nov 2006
Posts: 2713
How come there is a version by Arnold Furst published in 1978?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 11:33 am 
User avatar
Offline
Moderator

Joined: 10 Sep 2004
Posts: 8861
Location: Las Vegas
That's more in line with what I know about it. The concept was being tossed about by many people in the 70's, including Furst. I'll have to look it up but I think Townsend's work predates Furst's.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 2:47 pm 
User avatar
Offline
Moderator

Joined: 10 Sep 2004
Posts: 8861
Location: Las Vegas
It seems an identical topic has come up on Magic Cafe, possibly even from the same people posting here.

Rather than copy everything said over there, I suggest interested readers check out this thread


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 2:54 pm 
User avatar
Offline
born to perform.

Joined: 13 Feb 2006
Posts: 1759
Location: Practicing in front of a mirror
DaveV wrote:
It seems an identical topic has come up on Magic Cafe, possibly even from the same people posting here.

Rather than copy everything said over there, I suggest interested readers check out this thread


That's because girspiggy's name is Mark Tirone. :wink:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 2:58 pm 
User avatar
Offline
Moderator

Joined: 10 Sep 2004
Posts: 8861
Location: Las Vegas
I sort of figured that. No matter. It's just that I'd rather have people talk directly to the people involved (JT, Kam, and others) rather than get partial stories here posted second hand.

To more directly answer the Furst question, I didn't say either way who published what first. What I said was that Kenner was inspired to create his routine after seeing it performed by Townsend. I know JT hasn't published his routine yet, and I also know that others have, including Furst's publication of Futagawa's book which I haven't seen, but others who have the book can't seem to find the routine in question in that book yet. I have some lecture notes from Futagawa. I'll check to see if it might be in there. [EDIT: I found the notes written in 1991. It's mostly card stuff, no mention of any coins across]

There's a lot of history on this effect, and luckily for us most of the people involved are still with us and I fully expect they'll all be arguing who did what and when long after the interest here subsides.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 3:30 pm 
User avatar
Offline
Team Penguin

Joined: 27 Nov 2006
Posts: 2713
The visual 3 fly was used way before Kenner came in and coins across was being used before Kenner came in.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 5:04 pm 
User avatar
Offline
born to perform.

Joined: 02 Mar 2005
Posts: 2784
Coins Across is not the same as Three Fly.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 6:48 pm 
User avatar
Offline
Team Penguin

Joined: 27 Nov 2006
Posts: 2713
Well how is it different? 3 fly uses 1 less coin so they are different? Thats like selling a trick and claiming it's different because you use different colored cards or something.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 41 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB © 2009 Penguin Magic, Inc.