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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 2:00 am 
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Cody- You are aware who Banachek is don't you? He is an authority on the subject. He does a lot of suggestion. Luke Jermay has even based some of his effects (suggestion effects) off of Banachek's ideas. Banachek knows what he's talking about.

I never said there weren't exceptions, but what I stated was from my personal experience, as well as much study into the subject. I don't care if it works for you. You may be an exception. That, or maybe people are reacting because they think you're cute. However, the fact is, mentalism in general is a lot harder for younger people to pull off. It is a fact that you can't change.

I gave him my professional opinion, that is based on many years of study and working. The general consensus is that the younger you are, the harder mentalism, in general, is to pull off. Suggestion is even harder for a younger person to pull off for the reasons I've already state. So I gave him the best advice that I could. Learn whatever he can now, so in the future he can pull it off better. There is no reason to go out there, make a fool out of himself, and ruin his reputation for that type of magic, if he can avoid it.

Also, it's not a stereotype that I was giving off. It was facts. Also, my experience in this field of magic is that I've been doing it, somewhat seriously for two years. That's public performances, mainly stage. That's not including nearly a decade of study. And from all of that, I've been shown one thing, the younger you are, the harder it is to pull off.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 5:01 am 
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born to perform.

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Quoting from Pre Thoughts by Banachek

"I asked [Roger Klause] what he meant by his statement [that young people cannont get away with performing mentalism] as I took offens to it. His reply was simply that young people could never be taken seriously when it cam [sic] to magic of the mind...Any young man performing magic for other men tend to be intimidating especially if that man is with his wife or girlfriend...The man is definately going to look for the trick...to save face. However, if the magician is not young, not good looking...he is not going to be as intimidating at all and can get away with much more...Roger feel that it is [hard] for a young mentalist to overcome this burden of intimidation because they can't explain that your [sic] effects are just tricks, you are asking them to believe that you are reading their minds!"

The Roger Klause theory is sound and one that I try to overcome whenever I write a show or do a performance. As a 23 year old who doesn't perform as much as he'd like due to a lack of insurance (!!!) I'm still conscious of the fact that I must be nice to my audience, someone that they can trust and that they can like. I don't want to come over as intimidating at all, or at least not until I've reeled them in and want to hit them with something big and 'serious'. I'm also aware of the fact that I would be asking rather a lot of my audience if I asked them to believe I actually read minds, so I play the suggestion card often. I tell them that I made them think that, or chose that, or say that or do that. Or did I? I create an ambiguity that merges these ideas of magic, mind reading and suggestion and I feel that I am only now really able to do that convincingly due to my age. I wouldn't have dreamed of getting into the mentalism and suggestion world at 13 (granted I was only starting as a magician when I was 19 but that's not the point; even then I didn't touch mind reading as I felt it did fit me and my age), for one thing people in their teens are not so good as subjects for subtleties and suggestion as they haven't the experience in life to make unconscious assumptions about things such as adults do. Also, I find them less interested in whether I can read their minds or twist their thoughts and more interested in whether I can make that fork bend again.

Cody - Listen to fallingblood, over the last few months that man has proved himself knowledgeable and trustworthy on the subject of mentalism; heed his words. And don't fly off the handle like that for no reason; if you don't know who Banachek is don't talk about him. The man practically invented psychic magic (re-invented may be a better term but you know what I mean), and without him the world of suggestion would have only one great figure head to base all its future work on.

32


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 Post subject: Re: Suggestion
PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 8:50 am 
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Joined: 12 May 2004
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kingoreo91 wrote:
What is good material to start learning a suggestion mentalism?


I have the same question. I read Corinda's "13 Steps" and I don't recall it discussing suggestion effects.

The closest I've come to seeing explanations for suggestion related effects is Richard Osterlind's EASY TO MASTER MENTAL MIRACLES vol. 3 which includes the locked eye test, locked hands test, and the abnormal lift. If you purchase his new NO CAMERA TRICKS DVD from his web site you also get a bonus DVD that includes an entire hypnosis/suggestion routine (performance only/no explanations, though).

As for the young mentalists here who seem enthralled by Derren Brown and Luke Jermay...have you ever heard of Kreskin? He was doing this stuff 30 years ago. Check out a Kreskin DVD and see some old school mentalism. There is nothing new about anything Derren Brown does except for his presentation (like his offering fake explanations involving psychology and his creative television editing).


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:57 am 
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born to perform.

Joined: 13 Nov 2003
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Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Building Blocks, and if you can find Pure Effect (out of print) it is amazing.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 10:24 pm 
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Joined: 07 Jan 2007
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povallsky wrote:
Quoting from Pre Thoughts by Banachek

"I asked [Roger Klause] what he meant by his statement [that young people cannont get away with performing mentalism] as I took offens to it. His reply was simply that young people could never be taken seriously when it cam [sic] to magic of the mind...Any young man performing magic for other men tend to be intimidating especially if that man is with his wife or girlfriend...The man is definately going to look for the trick...to save face. However, if the magician is not young, not good looking...he is not going to be as intimidating at all and can get away with much more...Roger feel that it is [hard] for a young mentalist to overcome this burden of intimidation because they can't explain that your [sic] effects are just tricks, you are asking them to believe that you are reading their minds!"

The Roger Klause theory is sound and one that I try to overcome whenever I write a show or do a performance. As a 23 year old who doesn't perform as much as he'd like due to a lack of insurance (!!!) I'm still conscious of the fact that I must be nice to my audience, someone that they can trust and that they can like. I don't want to come over as intimidating at all, or at least not until I've reeled them in and want to hit them with something big and 'serious'. I'm also aware of the fact that I would be asking rather a lot of my audience if I asked them to believe I actually read minds, so I play the suggestion card often. I tell them that I made them think that, or chose that, or say that or do that. Or did I? I create an ambiguity that merges these ideas of magic, mind reading and suggestion and I feel that I am only now really able to do that convincingly due to my age. I wouldn't have dreamed of getting into the mentalism and suggestion world at 13 (granted I was only starting as a magician when I was 19 but that's not the point; even then I didn't touch mind reading as I felt it did fit me and my age), for one thing people in their teens are not so good as subjects for subtleties and suggestion as they haven't the experience in life to make unconscious assumptions about things such as adults do. Also, I find them less interested in whether I can read their minds or twist their thoughts and more interested in whether I can make that fork bend again.

Cody - Listen to fallingblood, over the last few months that man has proved himself knowledgeable and trustworthy on the subject of mentalism; heed his words. And don't fly off the handle like that for no reason; if you don't know who Banachek is don't talk about him. The man practically invented psychic magic (re-invented may be a better term but you know what I mean), and without him the world of suggestion would have only one great figure head to base all its future work on.

32

sorry for the time it took to respond.
Also, I did fly off of the handel, and I apologize for that...let me try to rephrase that, and end our mis-comunication?

Firstly, i DO know what I am talking about. I do agree with Roger....but not 100%. most young men or women cannot perform suggestion corectatally, at not fault of their own. At that smae time, I have only about a 25-50% success rate of using this style on people over about 25. There is a golden age and gender, and that would be girls from about 13-20. They're perfect...in many ways.

also, povallsky, I do understand that he has proved himself a good source of information over the past years.

Read that again. Over the past few years. I belive that he said he was in his 20ies? I'm 13, and I have also been performing this for a few months. It's two different age ranges. I am expecting that ther would be a rather large differnce between the two.




The next few lines are quotes from falling blood.

I gave him my professional opinion, that is based on many years of study and working. The general consensus is that the younger you are, the harder mentalism, in general, is to pull off. Suggestion is even harder for a younger person to pull off for the reasons I've already state. So I gave him the best advice that I could. Learn whatever he can now, so in the future he can pull it off better. There is no reason to go out there, make a fool out of himself, and ruin his reputation for that type of magic, if he can avoid it.


I must agree with the younger perception, and ..."mis-trust", to a degree. I am able to work it for a few reasons. First and foremost...I am a narutrally charasmatic person, with a strong stage presence. Or at least that is what I am told. I ease my audience into a sense of relaxation and comfort with effects that have nothing to do with suggestion, yet claim they do. So they have already fooled themselves into believing me. I go from there, and into selecting voulenteers that are..."worthy" if you will, for full blown suggestion acts. Also, Most of my large performances (stage, and such) are with teens (13-21) on average and I occasionally use a parent, or older person.
Just as a side note, when a group is not doing so well with over all suggestions, I have mastered MANY instant stooge methods, something I FULLY reccommend to anyone in suggestion, new or seasoned, old or young.

Now, I can see your point. I perform for teens, and college aged students. You perform for adults and such.



AS for Banachek. of course I know who he is! BUT, just becuase a pro says something, Doesn't mean i won't go out and test it to check it out. People are differnt, what works/didn't work for him, might work for me...no matter HOW good he is. I think that we udnerstand what we are each trying to say. I was talking about for his age, and you were talking about adults.

But kingoreo91, suggestion is HARD, and takes more than you're usualy magic. It requires personality, and ability to speak well. For some it comes natutally, and for others, not so much, and others will just never get it.

Thanks for reading!


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 12:26 am 
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Penguin

Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 13
well thx for all the advice guys


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