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 Post subject: 13 steps
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 1:53 pm 
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Penguin

Joined: 12 Dec 2007
Posts: 65
What are your favorite effects from 13 steps?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2008 6:03 am 
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born to perform.

Joined: 01 Oct 2006
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Location: Melbourne, Australia
Three little Questions Page 189 - 191
AWESOME TRICK!!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 12:39 pm 
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Penguin

Joined: 30 Jan 2008
Posts: 82
is 13 steps worth it, im thinking about buying it


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 12:47 pm 
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born to perform.

Joined: 10 Dec 2005
Posts: 1394
Location: Newmarket, ON, Canada
If you're thinking of getting into mentalism, it is worth its weight in gold. The perfect introduction to the subject, covers all of the basic info that a mentalist needs to know.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 6:50 pm 
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born to perform.

Joined: 15 Aug 2007
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Location: Brooklyn NY
i totally agree, it also helps the reader in performing skills. The book's worth gold and deserves every penny.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 8:15 pm 
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born to perform.

Joined: 21 Feb 2007
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Location: Your mind
wreksy wrote:
i totally agree, it also helps the reader in performing skills. The book's worth gold and deserves every penny.


And shipping and handling prices too!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 10:34 pm 
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born to perform.

Joined: 15 Aug 2007
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Location: Brooklyn NY
LOL, yeah that too. The book has an arsenal of tricks. Many tricks in the book can be done without props, which is good because you want to practice as soon as you get it.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 10:38 pm 
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i actually am not the greatest fan of the book, mind pointing out the pages where tricks require no props?? The book is good, and if your a mentalist you SHOULD OWN IT, however its tricky to read, and some effects cant be done simply because it is not plausible to own the effects (if you are a stage preformer i guess you can get your hands on the materials)...However i do like some gimmicks they teach you such as the billet index..


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:45 am 
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born to perform.

Joined: 10 Dec 2005
Posts: 1394
Location: Newmarket, ON, Canada
If you have the book, then take the time to actually read the thing and you'll find the prop-less tricks. You're 15 right? Start taking some of your own initiative. I read entire books about magic when I was 15, its not hard. You wanted to show in a different thread how 15 year olds can do busking correct? You've just shown why we advise those people not to do it. You were too lazy to read the book yourself and figure out for yourself the tricks that are prop-less. That shows you don't have the initiative to practice enough to go out and busk.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:07 pm 
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bucky310 wrote:
If you have the book, then take the time to actually read the thing and you'll find the prop-less tricks. You're 15 right? Start taking some of your own initiative. I read entire books about magic when I was 15, its not hard. You wanted to show in a different thread how 15 year olds can do busking correct? You've just shown why we advise those people not to do it. You were too lazy to read the book yourself and figure out for yourself the tricks that are prop-less. That shows you don't have the initiative to practice enough to go out and busk.


i read the firsat two "steps" the first night, i just dont get where the propless tricks i are...and wouldnt you agree somethings are confusing to read and outdated (like unable to get the supplys) im stuck making the gimmicks they suggest i buy(not a big deal because i love the product i made :) Anyways ive been swamped with papers, a few tests (i actually got 2 tommorrow), project (well i wont get into the work i do, but i also do track so i dont get home till later)..

but anyhoos im just asking for a simple "table of contents help" from you, just helping me by pointing out some killer no prop effects (which reminds me i suggest the pk touch for a unprop/ungimmick effect) I will finish the book soon, its just i want to skip ahead at this time to explore a variety of tricks in the book. Is there anything wrong with that?

and the whole issue of my past post on busking i wont bring here..(although its really tempting, but w /e). And i really didnt see your point bringing that up here, it was kind of a irrelevant low-blow.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 10:10 pm 
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born to perform.

Joined: 10 Dec 2005
Posts: 1394
Location: Newmarket, ON, Canada
It wasn't irrelevant but I can see how you wouldn't want to bring it up here. I explained my position and thus made it relevant to the topic because I used an example from your post.
In my mind, yes it is a lot to ask of me to go and search through one of my old books, read every effect in it and then catalog it for you so that you can have the one-stop convenience of knowing where the prop-less tricks are. Does it seem fair that you've asked me to do this when all I would get in return is nothing?
Look, you're a kid in high school, early high school at that. The fact is that you have enough time to do your work, track and whatever else you need to do daily AND read that book. It takes a while yes, but reading books sometimes does. This is coming from a person who is currently in third year university, you think you don't have time now? Wait until you are in my position, then you'll know what the absence of time to do everything is. On top of that, I still find ways to juggle class, projects, reading (for school), social life, and practicing magic. And trust me, my projects take a heck of a lot longer than yours do and require much more effort.
I apologize if I seem kind of like a jerk here, but you still come off like you feel like you're somehow above of people and you know everything. As is the attitude of any 15 year old teenager, so I don't blame you for that. Just your request for me to do reading for you seemed somewhat ridiculous to me. That's all.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 4:11 pm 
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born to perform.

Joined: 15 Aug 2007
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Location: Brooklyn NY
bucky310 wrote:
It wasn't irrelevant but I can see how you wouldn't want to bring it up here. I explained my position and thus made it relevant to the topic because I used an example from your post.
In my mind, yes it is a lot to ask of me to go and search through one of my old books, read every effect in it and then catalog it for you so that you can have the one-stop convenience of knowing where the prop-less tricks are. Does it seem fair that you've asked me to do this when all I would get in return is nothing?
Look, you're a kid in high school, early high school at that. The fact is that you have enough time to do your work, track and whatever else you need to do daily AND read that book. It takes a while yes, but reading books sometimes does. This is coming from a person who is currently in third year university, you think you don't have time now? Wait until you are in my position, then you'll know what the absence of time to do everything is. On top of that, I still find ways to juggle class, projects, reading (for school), social life, and practicing magic. And trust me, my projects take a heck of a lot longer than yours do and require much more effort.
I apologize if I seem kind of like a jerk here, but you still come off like you feel like you're somehow above of people and you know everything. As is the attitude of any 15 year old teenager, so I don't blame you for that. Just your request for me to do reading for you seemed somewhat ridiculous to me. That's all.

Exactly!!!
billets come into mind, so many things you can do with them.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 4:45 pm 
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Penguin

Joined: 30 Jan 2008
Posts: 82
bucky310 wrote:
It wasn't irrelevant but I can see how you wouldn't want to bring it up here. I explained my position and thus made it relevant to the topic because I used an example from your post.
In my mind, yes it is a lot to ask of me to go and search through one of my old books, read every effect in it and then catalog it for you so that you can have the one-stop convenience of knowing where the prop-less tricks are. Does it seem fair that you've asked me to do this when all I would get in return is nothing?
Look, you're a kid in high school, early high school at that. The fact is that you have enough time to do your work, track and whatever else you need to do daily AND read that book. It takes a while yes, but reading books sometimes does. This is coming from a person who is currently in third year university, you think you don't have time now? Wait until you are in my position, then you'll know what the absence of time to do everything is. On top of that, I still find ways to juggle class, projects, reading (for school), social life, and practicing magic. And trust me, my projects take a heck of a lot longer than yours do and require much more effort.
I apologize if I seem kind of like a jerk here, but you still come off like you feel like you're somehow above of people and you know everything. As is the attitude of any 15 year old teenager, so I don't blame you for that. Just your request for me to do reading for you seemed somewhat ridiculous to me. That's all.


oh well i assumed (yes assumed) you had your book "bookedmark", for example if i find a effect i like i bookmark it with a tab, i assumed you did the same and just can take 2 seconds to look at it, another 2 seconds to write it. Overall the way i was thinking it would take you a minute to help me. I never asked you to read, your post also kinda sounded like you knew where they were, you just werent willing to share. But edited if it took me a minute to help someone and make them happy id do it and expect nothing in return.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 5:26 pm 
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born to perform.

Joined: 10 Dec 2005
Posts: 1394
Location: Newmarket, ON, Canada
If I knew off of the top of my head I would help, but I can't cause I don't. Especially since 13 steps is not at school with me but at home about 150km away.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 6:36 pm 
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born to perform.

Joined: 18 Aug 2004
Posts: 2576
Location: Ituna, Saskatchewan, Canada
Once upon a time,

wreksy wrote:
Many tricks in the book can be done without props, which is good because you want to practice as soon as you get it.


Shortly afterwards...

nickyd8 wrote:
i actually am not the greatest fan of the book, mind pointing out the pages where tricks require no props??



A while later...

nickyd8 wrote:
i read the first two "steps" the first night, i just dont get where the propless tricks are...

...im just asking for a simple "table of contents help" from you, just helping me by pointing out some killer no prop effects (which reminds me i suggest the pk touch for a unprop/ungimmick effect)...



After which

wreksy wrote:
...billets come into mind, so many things you can do with them.




Bickerings about laziness and time management aside, I think one of the problems here is the need for clarification of what is meant by "propless." It seems to me that wresky and nickyd8 might be working from two different definitions.

When I first read wresky's initial comment about tricks in 13 Steps that could be done without "props," I was kind of taken aback myself because it seems that most of the tricks in the book do in fact require props, if you consider things like pencils, notepads, blindfolds, magazines, decks of cards, and, yes, even billets to be "props" -- which I do.

nickyd8 seems to interpreting "propless" as requiring nothing more than two people standing naked in a desert in that he mentioned "PK touches" as a (possible) example, whereas wresky seems to be interpreting "propless" to mean "gimmickless" in that he is suggesting that billet work falls into the category of "propless."

So which is it, guys?


Note that 13 Steps is actually a single-volume compilation of 13 booklets originally published separately. Each booklet covers a specific category of mentalism material, and it seems that many -- perhaps even most -- of those categories by their nature require use of some sort of "prop," which may or not be gimmicked:

1. Swami Gimmick -- This one should be obvious.
2. Pencil, Sound, Muscle Reading -- Although the fifth section covers Helstromism, most of what's here is about figuring out what someone has written down, which requires "props" like a pencil and paper.
3. Mnemonics and Mental Systems -- Aside from the day & date stuff, most of this material involves stuff being written down.
4. Predictions -- Not a lot of propless stuff here, no matter how you look at it.
5. Blindfolds & X-Rays -- The title gives this one away.
6. Billets -- Well... if billets are props, billet work is not propless.
7. Book Tests & Supplements -- If a billet is a prop, then a book must be a prop.
8. Two Person Telepathy -- Could possibly be propless, but much of the stuff included here isn't.
9. Mediumistic Stunts -- Lots of props of all sorts involved here.
10. Card Tricks -- Well... is a deck of cards a prop?
11. Question & Answer Effects -- In most Q&A acts, you have to record the questions somehow, which means you need some sort of writing "prop." There's some cold reading stuff here, though, so there's the possibility of doing verbal Q&A, which could be "propless."
12. Publicity Stunts -- Mostly proppy.
13. Patter & Presentation -- Doesnt count, as it's a chapter on theory, not tricks per se.

I'd have to say that if you are working from a definition of "prop" that includes ordinary objects -- basically any "object" that the performer must use -- then the majority of the material in 13 Steps requires props. If you are equating "prop" and "gimmick," which is not really a good idea, then you could argue that many of the tricks in 13 Steps do not require props. If you are looking for absolutely propless material in the category of "Touching on Hoy," hypnosis, and the like, 13 Steps is not really the place to look, though I would agree completely that the book belongs in the library of every student of mentalism and that it should be read thoroughly, not simply skimmed over, regardless of the type of material you expect to find in it.


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