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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 7:38 pm 
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born to perform.

Joined: 15 Aug 2007
Posts: 673
Location: Brooklyn NY
TheCaffeinator wrote:
Once upon a time,

wreksy wrote:
Many tricks in the book can be done without props, which is good because you want to practice as soon as you get it.


Shortly afterwards...

nickyd8 wrote:
i actually am not the greatest fan of the book, mind pointing out the pages where tricks require no props??



A while later...

nickyd8 wrote:
i read the first two "steps" the first night, i just dont get where the propless tricks are...

...im just asking for a simple "table of contents help" from you, just helping me by pointing out some killer no prop effects (which reminds me i suggest the pk touch for a unprop/ungimmick effect)...



After which

wreksy wrote:
...billets come into mind, so many things you can do with them.




Bickerings about laziness and time management aside, I think one of the problems here is the need for clarification of what is meant by "propless." It seems to me that wresky and nickyd8 might be working from two different definitions.

When I first read wresky's initial comment about tricks in 13 Steps that could be done without "props," I was kind of taken aback myself because it seems that most of the tricks in the book do in fact require props, if you consider things like pencils, notepads, blindfolds, magazines, decks of cards, and, yes, even billets to be "props" -- which I do.

nickyd8 seems to interpreting "propless" as requiring nothing more than two people standing naked in a desert in that he mentioned "PK touches" as a (possible) example, whereas wresky seems to be interpreting "propless" to mean "gimmickless" in that he is suggesting that billet work falls into the category of "propless."

So which is it, guys?


Note that 13 Steps is actually a single-volume compilation of 13 booklets originally published separately. Each booklet covers a specific category of mentalism material, and it seems that many -- perhaps even most -- of those categories by their nature require use of some sort of "prop," which may or not be gimmicked:

1. Swami Gimmick -- This one should be obvious.
2. Pencil, Sound, Muscle Reading -- Although the fifth section covers Helstromism, most of what's here is about figuring out what someone has written down, which requires "props" like a pencil and paper.
3. Mnemonics and Mental Systems -- Aside from the day & date stuff, most of this material involves stuff being written down.
4. Predictions -- Not a lot of propless stuff here, no matter how you look at it.
5. Blindfolds & X-Rays -- The title gives this one away.
6. Billets -- Well... if billets are props, billet work is not propless.
7. Book Tests & Supplements -- If a billet is a prop, then a book must be a prop.
8. Two Person Telepathy -- Could possibly be propless, but much of the stuff included here isn't.
9. Mediumistic Stunts -- Lots of props of all sorts involved here.
10. Card Tricks -- Well... is a deck of cards a prop?
11. Question & Answer Effects -- In most Q&A acts, you have to record the questions somehow, which means you need some sort of writing "prop." There's some cold reading stuff here, though, so there's the possibility of doing verbal Q&A, which could be "propless."
12. Publicity Stunts -- Mostly proppy.
13. Patter & Presentation -- Doesnt count, as it's a chapter on theory, not tricks per se.

I'd have to say that if you are working from a definition of "prop" that includes ordinary objects -- basically any "object" that the performer must use -- then the majority of the material in 13 Steps requires props. If you are equating "prop" and "gimmick," which is not really a good idea, then you could argue that many of the tricks in 13 Steps do not require props. If you are looking for absolutely propless material in the category of "Touching on Hoy," hypnosis, and the like, 13 Steps is not really the place to look, though I would agree completely that the book belongs in the library of every student of mentalism and that it should be read thoroughly, not simply skimmed over, regardless of the type of material you expect to find in it.

LOL!!! alright, what i meant was "gymmickless"! :lol: You have a point! The word shall be "gymmickless"!!!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 8:05 pm 
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Emperor Penguin

Joined: 03 Dec 2006
Posts: 7922
Location: Parkville, MO
Uhh... that would be "gimmickless". Key letter there being I. :roll:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 9:03 pm 
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Penguin

Joined: 30 Jan 2008
Posts: 82
TheCaffeinator wrote:
Once upon a time,

wreksy wrote:
Many tricks in the book can be done without props, which is good because you want to practice as soon as you get it.


Shortly afterwards...

nickyd8 wrote:
i actually am not the greatest fan of the book, mind pointing out the pages where tricks require no props??



A while later...

nickyd8 wrote:
i read the first two "steps" the first night, i just dont get where the propless tricks are...

...im just asking for a simple "table of contents help" from you, just helping me by pointing out some killer no prop effects (which reminds me i suggest the pk touch for a unprop/ungimmick effect)...



After which

wreksy wrote:
...billets come into mind, so many things you can do with them.




Bickerings about laziness and time management aside, I think one of the problems here is the need for clarification of what is meant by "propless." It seems to me that wresky and nickyd8 might be working from two different definitions.

When I first read wresky's initial comment about tricks in 13 Steps that could be done without "props," I was kind of taken aback myself because it seems that most of the tricks in the book do in fact require props, if you consider things like pencils, notepads, blindfolds, magazines, decks of cards, and, yes, even billets to be "props" -- which I do.

nickyd8 seems to interpreting "propless" as requiring nothing more than two people standing naked in a desert in that he mentioned "PK touches" as a (possible) example, whereas wresky seems to be interpreting "propless" to mean "gimmickless" in that he is suggesting that billet work falls into the category of "propless."

So which is it, guys?


Note that 13 Steps is actually a single-volume compilation of 13 booklets originally published separately. Each booklet covers a specific category of mentalism material, and it seems that many -- perhaps even most -- of those categories by their nature require use of some sort of "prop," which may or not be gimmicked:

1. Swami Gimmick -- This one should be obvious.
2. Pencil, Sound, Muscle Reading -- Although the fifth section covers Helstromism, most of what's here is about figuring out what someone has written down, which requires "props" like a pencil and paper.
3. Mnemonics and Mental Systems -- Aside from the day & date stuff, most of this material involves stuff being written down.
4. Predictions -- Not a lot of propless stuff here, no matter how you look at it.
5. Blindfolds & X-Rays -- The title gives this one away.
6. Billets -- Well... if billets are props, billet work is not propless.
7. Book Tests & Supplements -- If a billet is a prop, then a book must be a prop.
8. Two Person Telepathy -- Could possibly be propless, but much of the stuff included here isn't.
9. Mediumistic Stunts -- Lots of props of all sorts involved here.
10. Card Tricks -- Well... is a deck of cards a prop?
11. Question & Answer Effects -- In most Q&A acts, you have to record the questions somehow, which means you need some sort of writing "prop." There's some cold reading stuff here, though, so there's the possibility of doing verbal Q&A, which could be "propless."
12. Publicity Stunts -- Mostly proppy.
13. Patter & Presentation -- Doesnt count, as it's a chapter on theory, not tricks per se.

I'd have to say that if you are working from a definition of "prop" that includes ordinary objects -- basically any "object" that the performer must use -- then the majority of the material in 13 Steps requires props. If you are equating "prop" and "gimmick," which is not really a good idea, then you could argue that many of the tricks in 13 Steps do not require props. If you are looking for absolutely propless material in the category of "Touching on Hoy," hypnosis, and the like, 13 Steps is not really the place to look, though I would agree completely that the book belongs in the library of every student of mentalism and that it should be read thoroughly, not simply skimmed over, regardless of the type of material you expect to find in it.


Thank You for Clarifiying the confusion!
-Nick


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 12:19 am 
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born to perform.

Joined: 18 Aug 2004
Posts: 2576
Location: Ituna, Saskatchewan, Canada
Why, oh why, did you guys feel it necessary to quote my entire post...? Twice?!?

:roll:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 12:38 am 
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born to perform.

Joined: 10 Dec 2005
Posts: 1394
Location: Newmarket, ON, Canada
haha, yeah I had fun scrolling down for 30 seconds there too.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 10:02 pm 
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Penguin

Joined: 30 Jan 2008
Posts: 82
TheCaffeinator wrote:
Why, oh why, did you guys feel it necessary to quote my entire post...? Twice?!?

:roll:


because maybe your post rocks?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 2:01 pm 
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born to perform.

Joined: 18 Aug 2004
Posts: 2576
Location: Ituna, Saskatchewan, Canada
I'll accept that. :wink:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 4:32 pm 
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born to perform.

Joined: 21 Feb 2007
Posts: 1581
Location: Your mind
Here is a good prop less trick:
http://www.paulbrook.co.uk/brooktest.htm

Good luck...


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