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 Post subject: Creating a new effect
PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2008 6:08 pm 
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Penguin

Joined: 07 Mar 2006
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Hey everyone,

I am creating a new effect and could use some advice. The idea is a painting that can influence thoughts.

I would only use it for friends or guests to my home, but the idea is for it to be eye catching and when someone asks a question about it I would tell them it can influence thoughts. Once I force them to think of a card or symbol or whatever I would turn the painting over to reveal their choice on the back. My sister is a professional artist and can paint me something wild or surreal or whatever direction this might go in.

Right now the direction I am headed in is to use cards. The painting would be card related and maybe have naturalistic (real looking) kings and queens jumping out of their 2-D cards. (one possibility) I would give them a free selection of a suit, and then use equivocation techniques to force them to think of the 3 of that suit. Then I would turn the painting over to reveal the three of diamonds on the back, or show them the hidden three of clubs in the painting, or show them the three of spades stuck to the wall behind the painting, etc. which ever applies.

I am looking for a way to make this more direct, i.e. certain images or techniques that make people think of certain cards. Any advice or opinions would be very helpful. Any books you can direct me towards that teach such forcing techniques would be very helpful. I will let you know I am not a very experienced mentalist, so anything too advanced will be over my head. Thank you.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2008 6:24 pm 
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Derren Brown has a few very good ones in his Devils Picture Book DVD.

Sean Waters also has an ebook called Ponderings, which has a verbal card force. This one doesn't work as much though as Derrens.

Docc Hilford has one which is also suppose to be good. I forget what tape it is on though.

Also, having multiple outs in your picture would help greatly.

If you could hide an image of a 3 of hearts, 3 of diamonds, 7 of hearts, and 7 of diamonds, etc. But it depends on what card you are trying to force in the beginning.

Verbally forcing cards isn't all that great though... It is just a card.


You could also try to force some of the commonly picked cards such as queen of hearts, etc.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2008 11:05 pm 
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Thanks! I will look into that. I am not set on using playing cards either, it's just what I know. It could be just a picture of a collection of objects, symbols, etc. I am open into any ideas.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2008 2:09 am 
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born to perform.

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Location: Melbourne, Australia
Yes, definately look into Derren Brown. I am reading through Daniel Madison's Identity PDF at the moment and he has 5 different verbal card forces. You might want to look into that.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2008 6:34 am 
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Location: Your mind
Just have outs for the most common called cards,
You can also have an invisible deck as an out.

I find the triangle and circle force easy, it works almost 100% of the time for me.

Max.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2008 8:36 am 
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Bliztmagic wrote:
I find the triangle and circle force easy, it works almost 100% of the time for me.

Max.

For me the shapes work 100% of the time but the colors only work around 60%


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2008 12:16 pm 
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Location: Your mind
Max Maven has some effects in his book PRISM, maybe it will inspire you to make multi-out routines, Max Maven is very intelligent to reduce the need of outs in his routine, look at his bowling pin routine, someone merly thinks of going to bowling and counts the remaining pins in his head, The prediction is on the table, the spectator open it and it was indeed the number of pins, instead of 10 outs, he uses only 4 outs for this routine.

For the color you could use a double way envelope with double sided indedx card, which has one color on one side, one color on the other.

You could also use A pad of paper and Max Maven Writers Crimp and with this add amnemann double writing principle. you ''take notes'' have a bit of spectator involvement, add a few questions about things that could be predicted, then using the crimp switch the papers and open the prediction.

You can also use the same principle but with a billet knife and an index.
If things can't be forced then you have to have outs, unless you are a psychology mastermind and you are able to make a painting that will influence people at 100%...

Go throught all the ways that could be possible, and find what suits you.
Max.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2008 6:18 pm 
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Location: God's Country
Micheal Murray's Between the Lines is an excellent example of the power of verbal suggestion - ask a few questions of a scene created in a spectator's head and you produce a page of a second hand book that matches it near perfectly. Maybe you could go down that route?

Or, if having them imagine a painting that then happens to be your 'latest addition to the gallery' isn't your thing maybe work it backwards? Like after a few effects such as a predicted card choice, drawing duplication and a predicted colour/shape/word effect you draw eyes to the painting that features all of the chosen items as motifs. And if you don't want that I'm having it!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2008 6:39 pm 
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povallsky wrote:
Micheal Murray's Between the Lines is an excellent example of the power of verbal suggestion - ask a few questions of a scene created in a spectator's head and you produce a page of a second hand book that matches it near perfectly. Maybe you could go down that route?

Or, if having them imagine a painting that then happens to be your 'latest addition to the gallery' isn't your thing maybe work it backwards? Like after a few effects such as a predicted card choice, drawing duplication and a predicted colour/shape/word effect you draw eyes to the painting that features all of the chosen items as motifs. And if you don't want that I'm having it!


Your post made me thougth about John Thompsons Naked Mentalism, this book is a toolbox which could help you build your routine.

Google it, it's only availiable from his website I think.
Max.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2008 4:34 pm 
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Location: France - Chuckling at funny posts - In the CPC members base
Building Blocks has a few shape forces, Pure Effect has one or two card forces, or you could look into a gimmicked deck like the John Kennady Mind power deck, youl achive your ends 100% of the time with this deck, althoughs the effect will be a small small bit dilluted.

Pauldela


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2008 6:13 pm 
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No offense, but shape forces are dumb. In certain situations, they are alright, but I wouldn't tell a spectator to look at a picture and then force a shape on him. How many sahpes are there? Circle, square, rectangle, triangle. I would stick to the card idea for now. A word force would actually be even better.

As for using the mind power deck.. It wouldn't make sense to make a spectator look at a drawing and then pick a card from a deck? You would want him to look at the drawing and then just name a card.

I had Naked Mentalism and it would be extremely useful for what you are trying to do. You could have a very abstract picture and then ask the spectator what they saw.

Like.. Inside the picture, there was a couple sitting down. What were they drinking and eating? What color shirt was the girl wearing? What was the man wearing? Did they leave a tip? How much?

You could do all this with Naked Mentalism and have this all written on the back of the picture with what he will answer.

After he answers like 10 questions or so on what he saw in the abstract painting. You flip over the picture and reveal that every answer is correct.

You could also just use a swami, but I dunno how clean that would be.
Swami could work well... You would just have to position the questions a certain way and hold the drawing up for him to look at.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2008 9:08 am 
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Thanks for all the ideas. How advanced are the concepts in Naked Mentalism? Are there prerequisites involved? You can consider me a beginner mentalist for methods that don’t involve some kind of slight.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2008 10:26 am 
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Posts: 375
Concepts are very simple. You just need to be able to have a good presentation.


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