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 Post subject: why I won't buy post mentalism
PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 3:53 am 
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born to perform.

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Location: Birmingham UK
Before I go any further I want to say that this is not a rant. I intent this to be a constructive criticism of the post mentalist affect and will take time to view the pros and the cons.

First off I do not own this affect but have thought about it and devised a way to make it happen, which means I’ve either figured it out or made up an equally effective method.

Lets start with the sequence of event. The effect in my mind goes something like this…

You are in the pub with a friend and you tell him that you are going to predict the outcome of this weekends football match. You know what the score will be and who will score the goals (please insert any location or sporting event, or anything worth predicting you’d like here.)

You write the prediction on a piece of paper fold it up, let him sign the back then put it in an envelope. He writes his address on it and it gets posted with him/her standing present or even posting it themselves.

A day or so after the predicted event has taken place the envelope arrives at there house, they open it, see the paper with their signature on it, unfold it and bam. Expect phone calls demanding how you new that and why you didn’t run to the bookies with this knowledge.

Sounds great… but is it? Really?
The effect is very personal, only someone who was present at the time of writing and the time of opening is going to really get a kick out of this, it will be one edited of a kick I admit but it’s still only one person.

From a professional point of view is it very practical? The answer is no. Let’s say you’re working In a restaurant and have this prediction as part of your act. Is anyone really going to believe that the letter was written several days before the predicted event? Sure you could turn up a few days prior and let the manager and the staff witness everything but only they are going to know for sure. Most people present who won’t have seen the prediction being written will likely think that the manager is in on this, in fact he might as well be. It would be much more impressive to bring an envelope with you, put it on display all night and the climax of your show open to reveal a prediction about something that happened minutes ago, naming people, props, colours of clothes etc. This is taught in step 1 of 13 steps and would be much more powerful despite the fact you are the one who opens the envelope.

And lets face it.. Why are you posting the darn thing anyway? Think about it your friend is right there in front of you, why not just hand him the envelope and say
“take it home and don’t open it until after… (whatever you predicted)” the very fact you are posting it to them is going to raise some sort of suspicion.

Post mentalism is a good trick to impress your friends with, and it could also work as a way to get some repeat work. After a night working you could get the manager and few staff together, write the prediction and post it off. When they open it to see the deadly accuracy they will no doubt be screaming to have you back (though your show should have done that anyway.)

Overall I honestly think this is just a very impractical effect as it targets to small an audience. I’d much prefer to do magic or mentalism where I’m there and I can sell it on my charisma and showmanship and be there to witness their reactions, rather than inflicting supposed test conditions on myself.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 7:05 am 
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born to perform.

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It's practical for the market Alvo is targeting: coffee-shop, personal magic that makes a lasting impression on a person. It seems to work very well in that situation. I can see what you mean about impracticality, but I don't think it was ever meant for that venue.

-JT


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 9:30 am 
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Corporate bookings. Repeat clients. What makes it impractical? The mailing out of the prediction adds a really interesting flavour to the trick. I think it's a really great idea. In their hands they have a souvenir that will remind them of how great/clever/funny/entertaining you are. Next time someone talks about an entertainer, they say your name. It creates a long lasting impression on your client that may well pay you back in future.
You have to imagine what is going through the person's head when they get the prediction. It is pure astonishing mentalism without the mass of lights, audience, big halls and whatever...it's pure astonishment.
This is also a story teller. They will definately feel the need to tell as many people as possible. Every time they tell someone, your name is heard.


It's not that bad...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 6:46 am 
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You are right that the afect could be something you could send out to potential corprate clients as a means of being remembered. There is a market for this but not from me lol.

If I wanted to predict the outcome of a game (as an example) I'd prefer to simply be sitting with a group of friends and just before the game started I would make my prediction and seal it up. This would be on display through the whole game or locked away somewhere none of us could get at it.

Using methods covered in the first few steps of 13 steps you could easily get a 100% accurate prediction. And while you would need to handle the envelope briefly it's still possible for the spectators to open it themselves and read it. They could place any number of identifying marks onto the prediction paper prior to it being sealed and they get to see if you're right almost immediatly after the game.

There is also the added bonus that you will be there to see the reactions and can use your own showmanship to make the affect stronger.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 8:15 am 
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That sounds great for the setup you are in but I highly doubt a client would be willing to sit through a football game with me.
Maybe your rant (yes, it was a rant) on the effect should be more about how it's bad for you personally and wont work with your current performance situation than being about how its just a flat out bad product. I think ripping on a product has to be VERY necessary and is to be taken seriously as Alvo makes his living on this and if you are trying to stop people from buying this, what's that doing to him?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 8:54 am 
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I've been openly critical of this effect for the reasons arkham666 mentions above. I think that the premise is brilliant and Alvo's instructions help you pull it off well but with the amount of handholding needed, as arkham666 says, you might as well just sit down and watch the game with the spec.

I've wracked my brain for a couple of weeks now trying to figure out how I personally could get this effect to work for me and I've struggled to come up with a use for it.

At first I thought I could pull out the prediction at a bar before a game, walk down to a mailbox with the specs, etc and go enjoy the game. There are myriad problems with this though after thinking about it:

1. Why would I have a stamped envelope, pen and paper with me at the bar? Ok, maybe I came in from work and I had these things with me, but I rarely go to a bar straight from work these days since moving out to the 'burbs.

2. Why would I mail the prediction when I'm sitting there watching the game with the group?

3. If you're at someone's house, you need to go the post office. If you're in an urban setting, chances are there's a public mailbox down the street for you to drop your prediction in.

4. I miss the reaction.

#1 I could work past but #2 (and at times #3) was the deal breaker. It's just not logical.

At this point you're probably asking why I even purchased it and to that I have to say that I thought this would allow me to predict an outcome days in advance of the event, not the same day.

I'd really love to hear suggestions of how to effectively use this in casual settings and not rely on the spec's need to suspend belief. I think it's just a love it or hate it thing and for those that love it, they're just in different social situations than those that hate it.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 9:02 am 
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Maybe it's not made for a casual setting.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 7:09 pm 
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revelation77 wrote:
That sounds great for the setup you are in but I highly doubt a client would be willing to sit through a football game with me.
Maybe your rant (yes, it was a rant) on the effect should be more about how it's bad for you personally and wont work with your current performance situation than being about how its just a flat out bad product. I think ripping on a product has to be VERY necessary and is to be taken seriously as Alvo makes his living on this and if you are trying to stop people from buying this, what's that doing to him?


I wasn't ripping into the trick and I wasn't having a rant. If you read closely you'll see I make every opportunity to point out the good points of the trick as well as what I consider to be the bad.
You'll also notice that the title of this thread is "Why I won't buy post mentalism" not "why YOU shouldn't buy post mentalism" the post clearly states that I don't feel it fits in with my performance style. I also mention in one post "there is a market for this affect"
Frankly you should read carefully and take in everything not just the things that support your own argument. Also it's important for everything to be shown in its posative and negative lights for people to make an informed decision. There are rave reviews all over this site for this trick but people should see that there is another side to it so that they can make an informed decision. It is not my goal to sway peoples opinions and make them think the way I do (my powers of suuggestion simply aren't that good for one). People can read this and make what they want of it but it's important to see there are two sides to every coin. After they've seen both they just make up their own mind.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 2:21 am 
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Apologies for my post. I will read carefully in future.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 4:37 am 
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no worries just wanted to make sure we were on the same page about everything.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 5:32 pm 
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the trick is for a day or two before an event where you may or may not be present, that way there is a very unique build up till they receive the mail. there are other tricks that could be done with the idea, so it's an effect I personally like a lot.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 12:59 pm 
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This trick is exactly the same as The Perfect Prediction?? I'm seriously angry about it, I bought the thing and basically bought a *insert gimmick* for $30 when I can buy one for $3 and have been for ages. Fine I only bought it out of curiosity, but still I feel scammed. Whats his name who "created" this was plugging it saying its totally unique, nothing else like it rah rah rah. It's a total rip off of Perfect prediction!

It's ridiculous, anyone take an existing idea, effect, whatever, make up their own notes and buy a load of *insert gimmick*s from china and make a load of cash claiming it's original, and seriously he can't POSSIBLY play the I invented it too cards, bull **** he didn't. He didn't take 2 minutes to search google and see if it existed? See if he had any contenders. Come on.

Buy Perfect Prediction instead you get lots of other nice little routines with it too, it's a much better product, its cheaper and it's an original idea, not a copied one.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 8:02 pm 
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The method is practically the same, but the gimmicks you get for $3 are no where near the quality of the ones you get with this. Magic Magazine gave this a great review, too.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 10:40 am 
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miniserb725 wrote:
It's practical for the market Alvo is targeting: coffee-shop, personal magic that makes a lasting impression on a person. It seems to work very well in that situation. I can see what you mean about impracticality, but I don't think it was ever meant for that venue.

-JT


yeah, it usually only uses one person. If all magicians started using this effect, so many people would be amazed, not just one person, but sometimes you need to stop performing for an entire crowd and just perform for one person. Every weekend I do this. I work on tips at the swap meet. (I'm fourteen, I really have nowhere better to be...) Anyways, performing to one person at a time, sometimes two, ends up being a few thousand throughout the 8 hours I'm there. I usually only use one trick, unless they ask to see another. (The B2 Bomber. It usually gets me a tip if I do it with their dollar...) Anyways, sorry for getting off of the right subject... but yeah. you have to perform for ONE person sometimes. (Not saying that stage shows or multi peopled tricks are bad though...)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 11:21 am 
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I plan on predicting the winner of the tallent show this year


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