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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 5:14 pm 
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lol , I didn't think I would become derren brown by reading alchemical tools, I didn't even say that. but I did be;live that it would teach me things that i didn't know. as well the tricks sounded really good until i read them. I was also very irritated the way he wrote the book. he mentions how great his 'out of this world' version is at least three times though the book and says if you want o learn out of this world then go buy paul currys material. I know a few versions of out of this world and I was interested in how he can do the trick over a half hour period, that would have been nice to learn that way of doing it. but it seems more like a carrot dangled in front of me, I felt he was playing with me.
So all I'm really trying to say is that his material is not worth buying. I bought just this book from him and I am dissatisfied. there has been no other magic book that I have bought that has disappointed me so much. so I say avoid his material. that's all folks.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 5:33 pm 
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born to perform.

Joined: 10 Dec 2005
Posts: 1394
Location: Newmarket, ON, Canada
So you judge ALL of his material based on 1 book that you've read. That's fair. Get over yourself, you didn't like something, move on. I've got On the Spot by Gregory Wilson just sitting in my magic drawer unused because I didn't like it. I'm not going to buy some more stuff myself, but I would recommend him to beginners because he teaches some valuable things in it. Don't just tell people to swear off of a person's material just because you don't like it. You're giving a biased opinion, which is not helpful. You're simply not experienced enough to be giving out advice in my mind. Like I said, you bought something you didn't like, it happens to all of us, accept it, get over yourself, and stop giving bad advice to people based on one bad experience.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 6:51 pm 
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If he didn't like then that is his opinion. It obviously isn't a book for everyone considering he hated it. My copy should be here in a week or so and I'll post up a review in a few weeks.

I am not expecting to learn any tricks from this book. The only thing I am looking for are subtleties I can add to my performances.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 10:10 pm 
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bucky310 wrote:
So you judge ALL of his material based on 1 book that you've read. That's fair. Get over yourself, you didn't like something, move on. I've got On the Spot by Gregory Wilson just sitting in my magic drawer unused because I didn't like it. I'm not going to buy some more stuff myself, but I would recommend him to beginners because he teaches some valuable things in it. Don't just tell people to swear off of a person's material just because you don't like it. You're giving a biased opinion, which is not helpful. You're simply not experienced enough to be giving out advice in my mind. Like I said, you bought something you didn't like, it happens to all of us, accept it, get over yourself, and stop giving bad advice to people based on one bad experience.



I was simply disappointed having paid $80 for the book. So my point is basically his stuff is over priced and having been asked I would say to anyone be careful, just cause the description sounds good, it needn't reflect the actual substance of the book.

"...Get over yourself..."
don't forget we are all allowed to have an opinion , however harsh it is. I am not someone who has millions of followers who obey every word I say. someone asked a question that I had some knowledge about so I answered. it's an OPINION, nothing more.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 9:24 am 
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born to perform.

Joined: 10 Dec 2005
Posts: 1394
Location: Newmarket, ON, Canada
thewinterline wrote:
lol , I didn't think I would become derren brown by reading alchemical tools, I didn't even say that. but I did be;live that it would teach me things that i didn't know. as well the tricks sounded really good until i read them. I was also very irritated the way he wrote the book. he mentions how great his 'out of this world' version is at least three times though the book and says if you want o learn out of this world then go buy paul currys material. I know a few versions of out of this world and I was interested in how he can do the trick over a half hour period, that would have been nice to learn that way of doing it. but it seems more like a carrot dangled in front of me, I felt he was playing with me.
So all I'm really trying to say is that his material is not worth buying. I bought just this book from him and I am dissatisfied. there has been no other magic book that I have bought that has disappointed me so much. so I say avoid his material. that's all folks.


No see, the bold part is opinion, the last part is advice. You say "his material is not worth buying", and to "avoid his material", that my friend is advice. And bad advice at that. He has some fantastic tricks. We know you're upset, but we don't need a paragraph telling us. A simple "I didn't like the material and thought I would have learned a lot more from it" would have sufficed. I didn't imply you had millions of followers before, but people do read these topics and you may influence someone to not buy the product (which may in fact help them a lot) just because of your silly rant of a paragraph. I'll say it again, get over yourself. Yes we're allowed to have an opinion, but don't give bad advice to those who may actually take it thinking you have a clue as to what you're talking about.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 6:38 am 
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an opinion is another word for advise, look it up and 'get over yourself'.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 9:01 am 
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I don't see how winterline is giving bad advice. He doesn't like the book. I know lots of working mentalists who said the book wasn't as good as everyone says it is. I also know alot of people who love the book.

You haven't even read the book yet Bucky, so you are the one who is actually giving bad advice, since you shouldn't even be commenting on it.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 9:30 am 
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born to perform.

Joined: 10 Dec 2005
Posts: 1394
Location: Newmarket, ON, Canada
I actually haven't given any advice. You're right, I haven't read the book, but to discredit someone's entire set of tricks and books because of one bad experience is not a good idea. Check out his Brook Test, fantastic! But if I were to follow his advice, then I wouldn't buy it because I'm supposed to avoid all of his material. I realize its a contested book, but its the "stay away from all of his material because I didn't like this book" part of his argument that I don't like. THAT is bad advice. Like I said previously, it would be like me saying "stay away from all of Gregory Wilson's material because I didn't like On the Spot". It's all personal opinion yes, but its also advice to some, who may actually benefit from the material being discredited. If you don't see how that's bad advice to be given, then I can't help you see it.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 1:17 pm 
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I don't think anyone here is dumb enough to think all of Paul Brook's material is bad. The only thing I took from winterline's post is that he hates AT so much that he would never buy any of his other material. That is understandable.

This is suppose to be his best book, so if it was horrible, I doubt I would ever purchase anything else from him again. I have bought books that were suppose to be the best the creator ever wrote up and they were horrid. If a mentalist's best material is total junk, then I would be scared to see what his good books and even bad books are like.

Like I said, I doubt anyone here believes everything by Brook's is bad. Winterline hates AT so much that he would not buy his other products. I don't see a thing wrong with that. I for one would not purchase 10 expensive books just to find out they are all of poor quality.


Last edited by Lumas on Sat Aug 09, 2008 10:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 9:01 pm 
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born to perform.

Joined: 10 Dec 2005
Posts: 1394
Location: Newmarket, ON, Canada
Agreed, I won't argue a single part of that comment. You're 100% right. Its just a little disappointing to see someone advising others to stay away from his stuff just because of one bad experience. But oh well, I don't control him, and I wouldn't want to. I just thought it should have been kept personal instead of general. For example, saying "I won't buy anymore of his stuff" instead of "don't buy his stuff".


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 10:47 am 
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Joined: 11 May 2008
Posts: 252
Bliztmagic wrote:
I agree,

Paul books are more rewardfull for the working mentalist or advanced hobbyist, sure they are truly a great read even if you don't work in the feild. But I too somewhat began to look at older material, I missed on a lot of great DvD's like Richard Osterlind mind mysteries series, Osterlind became one of my favorite mentalist and his effects are simple and play big.

Those are the old school books I like the most:
- 13 steps
- Mind myth and magic
- Theater of the mind
- Prism.

I like anneman work for his contribution but I don't use any of his effects.
Max.


Great books...


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 4:16 pm 
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Posts: 375
OK, I just started reading through Alchemical Tools last night (up to about pg 80) and Winterline is insane for saying this book is bad.. I am going to have to say that he is too young to comprehend the power that this book holds. Seriously, unless you majored in Psychology, this book should not be even a tad bit useless to you. All I can say is that this book is very, very good so far.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 5:56 am 
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Posts: 54
Lumas wrote:
OK, I just started reading through Alchemical Tools last night (up to about pg 80) and Winterline is insane for saying this book is bad.. I am going to have to say that he is too young to comprehend the power that this book holds. Seriously, unless you majored in Psychology, this book should not be even a tad bit useless to you. All I can say is that this book is very, very good so far.


Wait until you get to the end ;)
I must say that Paul Brook's The Alchemical tools is a must have.

BTW. How much there is other material in On Mephisto's shoulder, than effects, as I'am not currently interested in new effects, but I'd like to hear more thoughts from Paul. Would this be a good buy considering my needs?


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