I have been a close- up and parlor type magician for a while, but recently at my local SAM Assembly, I saw a mentalist there who was, quite frankly, very good IMO. He hasn't been doing mentalism for a long time, but he feels that you can accomplish almost any effect in mentalism using purely psychological forces. Anyway, what are some good DVDs or books (besides 13 Steps because I know that you're going to say that,) that teach psychological forces and other mentalism techniques and tricks at a beginner level and work up? He was talking (I didn't really ask him) about Banacheck and Osterlind. I know that Richard Osterlind has his Mind Mysterious set out, and the Perfected Center Tear, etc. How is Banacheck? So what would you recommend to a magician starting in mentalsim?


Also, he did this trick that fooled the crap out of me that I was wondering if anyone could tell me what it was. I didn't see the beginning, but I think that he had someone take some cards out of a deck of cards so they had a decent amount of cards, and then he instructed them to, when he names a card that they have in their pile, give it to him. He turned his back and then every card that he named was a card in their pile. The trick was amazing, even with a limited presentation that he used on the trick. I think that that trick has amazing potential. If you know the name of it, or a book/ DVD that it's on that'd be great. For some reason it sounds like an Osterlind effect, but I have no idea. Also, is the radar deck good?

I hate that I sound like one of those irritating new "magicians" who comes in here and asks where he can get good beginner material and tricks, etc. So I apologize for that. I am not new however.

The effect you described sounds like one taught by Osterlind in his BCS booklet.

Really, start with 13 Steps and Practical Mental Magic.

Osterlind and Banachek have great DVDs. Read the effect descriptions for each and buy the ones that you would want to perform. All their DVDs are awesome, so it is a matter of what you want to do.

Sounds like the dude was feeding you a load of bull about the psychological forces. The effect he performed didn't rely on them and I doubt many of his other effects did.

Forces are great when they work, but people are unpredictable and different. Not everyone responds the way statistics say they should.

Oh, sorry. The effect that the guy did he said was not using psychological forces; the psychological force theory of his came into play when he was doing an impromptu invisible deck/ card in wallet trick that didn't use a deck, just psychological forcing. He also did an impromptu trick where he had someone think of a time, and then he predicted it to the minute using psychological forces. Thanks for the suggestions. Also, what are good sources on psychological forcing because, even though it doesn't always work, it sounds fun to play around with for some impromptu stuff. Thanks,



Mike

Sounds like he did Kenton Kneppers 'Collosill Killer' and Banachecks
'Phychenetic time'... Yes my spelling is terrible, Im tired.

Most 'Phycological' stuff is BS. Use trickery, and pass it off as PF if you want.

Why dont you want to get 13 steps or PMM?

It wasn't Kollosal Killer, it truly was a PF because it was his normal wallet, and there was only one card in there, and you could tell he was doing a PF. Anyway, I was planning on getting those items that I knew everyone was going to recommend, so I was trying to save them the time.



Mike

Did the effect happen to use a pen and paper, and a lot of crossing out and circling in? Or no props at all?

Yes... Exactly.. KK uses only 1 card...

Its kinda a PF. But it was probably KK, or a variation, like 7.

7 of spades would be funny

He could have been using Osterlind's Breakthrough Card System from the Mind Mysteries #2 DVD. If you want to bridge a gap between your close up skills and mentalism this DVD is good because it's all about cards. I think you can get the Radar Deck on Mind Mysteries #1 as well.

No props, just his normal wallet, a card, and and a lot of PFing I think because he said it was and he always seems straightforward.

Thanks. It doesn't really matter to me if I build a little bridge between mentalism and magic because it could never hurt to have two different performing styles. I like your suggestion though so I can still do mentalsim while in magician mode. Thanks for the help llGoorberll, and everyone. I will, of course, be picking up 13 Steps and PMM, along with some of the MM DVDs, maybe the BCS thing by Osterlind, and possibly some Banacheck stuff. Does that sound good? What Banacheck stuff is good? Are there other mentalists that have recommendable products out? Thanks!

Oh my god, you come here for helpm and I ive you it, then tell me I must be wrong! for [edited] sake, KK uses a normal wallet and 1 card, heck, you dont even need a wallet, just 1 card!

Now Im out of this disscussion, im helping you no longer.

Maybe it was, I don't know. Is Kollosal Killer virtually impromtu/ no gaffs? If so, then it very well could've been. I'm not familiar with the plot of Kollosal Killer, I thought it was a card named appears in my pocket trick, but you make it sound like it isn't. I really don't think it was gaffed, just a lot of PFing, but if Kollosal Killer isn't gaffed, then it very well could've been. I never agreed with you that it was before because I didn't think that a marketed trick could run solely on PFs, I thought kollosal Killer would have to have a gimmick involved.

Like I said it's Kinda PF, most PF is bullsh*t.

This works 100%. You need one normal playing card.

I'm not saying HE DID KK, but I'm saying it soundsalot like it.

I know it seems like he did 'psychological forcing' but very little people do. I have tricks where I convince the audience that I am influencing their subconscious but really...I'm using a nail writer. This guy you saw was an illusionist; he created the illusion that he could psychologically force anyone. I apologise for shattering this illusion as it seems you fell for it. The card in wallet thing sounds not only like Kollosal Killer but like the 'completely invisible' routine that COMES with KK...
I also find it funny that you are TOTALLY writing off gaffs simply because you 'really don't think it was gaffed'. I hope not. If the audience thinks it's gaffed then he's not exactly doing a good job now are he? KK uses a wallet that isn't altered in anyway but cannot be examined without a switch. That's all I will say for fear of revealing the method.

What would I recommend to someone starting in mentalism?
- 13 Steps (shutup...you need it)
- Osterlind's ETMMM series
- Osterlind's Mind Mysteries series
- I also got Banachek's PSI series DVDs when I was fairly new to mentalism but didn't really get much out of it but I watched them again recently and still didn't get anything out of it (I only have volumes 1 & 2). Alot of people really liked them so...maybe I'm just weird.
I have never been let down by an Osterlind product. I know I sound like I'm trying to plug him but it's the honest truth. The Radar Deck is a fantastic buy and is worth every penny if you do shows or standup.

The original card effect that you named was not an 'osterlind' or 'banachek' effect although I have no doubt that they may have performed it. It is simply a memorized deck effect that has been around for ages.

Peace,
~Rev.