Hey guys I'm reading through prism (easilly the best christmas present I had last year) and there are several affects which use magicians choice as the mode of forcing the spectator to pick something.

I know the basic principle of this method but I've rarely used it (I only use it in collosal blizzard).. This is mainly because the basic method strikes me as pretty weak it seems a little obvious so I need some scripted subtlties to help me make it a little moore decieving.

I ideally want to go out on a limb at the start and ask the spectator to choose one of the available items, this way it means now and then I can have the pleasure of making it a free choice first time and enhancing the power of the affect.

I've just finished the first book in prism (blue) the affects..

"tis the season to be lying" and "elemental" both use magican's choice and I imagine more will, so anything you can suggest to make this little tool a little more convincing is appreciated.

as you said, it is all presentational. The only advice I can personally give would be to find a way to include it in your patter that makes sense for having them choose what they are choosing. It is quite difficult because at times people may say "but I wanted those ones" when you eliminate some. I can't go further or I might expose the principle. That is the tough part though, making sure they do not say that, and if they do, making sure you have an out for it.

Yes I once offered a magician's choice to someone and he just grabbed the one he wanted.

ok brainwave for elemental.. I think I can work it into my patter there but can't post what I'm thinking for exposure reasons. The theme is elements which are opposed cancel each other out.

I have my own variation here it is;

Let's say you have five envelopes, and you wish to force one;
Mark the envelope you wish to force, pretend to mix the envelopes, place the marked one fourth from top and place them in a row on the table.

ask someone to touch an envelope, now there is a natural propaganda for people to reach for whatever is placed fourth, so he might select this envelope first, if he does simply state that he should take it and discard all the envelopes.

if he doesn't touch the right envelope, tell him it was simply a way to predict his thoughts for the future, now take all the envelopes and mix them some more, place the marked evelope last in the row.

Take the top to envelopes and ask him to select one and to discard one.

Now keep shuffling the envelopes and taking two BUT the one you wish to force, at the outset, you will be left with a non-force envelope, and your force envelope.

now take the two remaining as usual, and tell him to make his FINAL CHOICE, say it boldly.

If he touch the force envelope give him, if he touch the non force envelope, discard it as if he would have selected the one he wants to eliminate (as in the forcing procedure earlier.)

Hope this helps.
Max.

I have thought a lot about the magician's choice and I have a lot of ideas using it, PM me if you are interested.

It's not "equivoque" but it is a "magician's choice." Try playing with a PATEO force. (Pick Any Two, Eliminate One)

Each takes turns discarding objects. He pushes two to you, you discard one. You offer two to him, he discards one and so on until there's only one left.

If you see the "force" coming your way, ignore it and discard the other. When you offer, make sure to never offer the "force" to him so it doesn't matter what he discards. The last card (or whatever) on the table is the force item.

I saw Kreskin do this on TV (either Letterman or Carson, don't remember which) and he sorted socks! When it was all done, he pulled up his pant leg to show that the color of the remaining sock matched the one he was wearing.

some great ideas here guys I'm feeling much more comfortable with this now. I'm going out to perform tomorrow and we're taking a camera so I may have something up in the penguin theatre in the next couple of days.

Good luck!

Whatever you choose to do, remember the key is to be sort of vague so your decision makes sense either way. And it helps if your choices seem consistent. None of the stereotypical "Pick one... okay we'll eliminate that one" and then "Pick one... okay we'll keep that one" and "Pick one... we'll use this" Nobody buys it.

Max Maven wrote a booklet years ago on Equivoque. If you can find a copy it's well worth it. Christian Chelman has a routine called "Equivox" that's quite good as well, along with some force work in his book "Capricornian Tales." I was chosen as a volunteer during Christian's lecture in Las Vegas. It was a force of five different coins. I mentally chose the one I wanted before the routine began and he nailed it on the first choice. The psychology of why he chose to use those particular coins skewed my choices in the direction he ultimately wanted to go and it worked! I sort of wished I could redo my choice so I could see how he handled each of the "outs."

well things unfortunatly didn't go to plan, we had to leave going out untill sunday and things were so quiet it wasn't really worth bothering, hopefully take another pop at it soon though.

DaveV sums it up. None of the stereotypical, 'OK we'll eliminate that then' None of that.

Also another great point he made is be very confident, you must move on without a pause or any hesitence.

Well how about if you have two people standing up, and you need to have Person A chosen, and you would like to use the MF.
How would one go about doing so while avoiding the old, "Pick one. We'll eliminate / use him?"

I was thinking of having somebody pointing to one or the other, but at that point, it has to go in that stereotypical direction.

So what could I do to make that better?

With only one, it's not so bad. They don't have a chance to hear any discrepancies in choice.

Just word it vagely. "We have two volunteers and have to eliminate one of them. I'd like someone in the audience to point to one person..."

That way they don't know if they're choosing or eliminating, they're just pointing.

Okay. That's what I was going for. Thanks Dave.

I'm not familier with any affects that require the forcing of a spectator, you've piked my curiosity could you elaborate on this further?

Yessir.

The effect I am talking about is from a book by Eric Anderson and David Harkey entitled, "Ah Ha; A Collection of Magical Presentations."
The book, overall, is pretty good, and I recommend it.

Anyway, the effect is called "Scatterbrain."

Here's how it goes: You have given two audience members each a few pages of newspaper, having told them each to remember ANY word they like.
You tell the audience that you are going to show them a strange coincidence, and that they are going to do all the work, so it is completely fair.
You have one of the two spectators with a newspaper selected by somebody in the crowd (this is where the force comes in). From the chosen spectator, you take the newspaper. You then go around the room to random audience members, and tear the newspaper in half, each time asking which half they would keep (NO FORCE here). You continue this process until only a small square of newsprint remains. A final audience member puts their finger anywhere on the square, and you write down the word they point to. The spectator who had the newspaper reveals his word, and they match.

It is a very powerful effect for an audience, though I would not recommend doing it for close-up; it's best with 15-30 people.
In the book, Anderson doesn't mention anything about having TWO spectators each choose a word, but in the actual performance he did at his lecture, that's the way he performed it. And adding that element really adds a level of fairness.

If you decide to buy the book (it's decent; has a few really great effects, but some are sort of lame), then you can PM me for more information on it.

By the way, I may do this very effect in my psychology class sometime soon, and I may well film it. If I do, I'll be sure to keep you updated.