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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 1:06 pm 
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born to perform.

Joined: 13 Jan 2008
Posts: 550
Location: Sweden
Heijmans wrote:
Bucky, in no way I asked anything on a bad or demanding tone to you, and if you think I have, it wasn’t my intention. However, your tone is pretty much made out of ignorance. Your cold reading skills must be very high to know anything from me including my knowledge of mentalism. And if you think you’re higher or better, then give me the books you think I need to read in all your wisdom excellence...

I got my thoughts on this, but as you and i know there are many roads to Rome, i just was interested in the vision you shared with Lensman.

Also you’re statements are made of rubbish, in a forum you pretty much don’t know anyone (except a few), and if I see, lensman is only a member a few months earlier than I am. I noticed many times from the times I became a member that you always were rude or harsh against members asking questions here in the mentalist section, to sad. again I not intented you to think that i demanded a pm, i was just a curious, but again you state that i can figire it out by myself as a reasen not to pm me, and then on the other hand start a discussion in this subject against Lens on pm, your piont is not legitimate at this case, you must think youre post out a bit more.

People are coming here to bring their skills and knowledge to a higher level, seemingly you don’t want that to happen as i noticed many of youre reactions :(


Bucky is not rude, he is honest, which people should be thankful for.

This is not a forum for sharing secrets, because its a public forum and if secrets where shared here it wouldn't be secrets anymore. Some secrets are in books or dvds, and that is where to go if you want to learn something, that is where I'll go after posting this.

So if people is here to "bring their skills and knowledge to a higher level" They are at the wrong place. This forum is great for getting help on what books to read, etc. which saves a lot of time IF everyone is honest, like bucky.

EDIT: oh, and one more thing, I don't think bucky sent me a personal message because he wanted everyone to read it. Which is another reason for not sending the same PM to everyone that asks. a personal message is just that, personal.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 1:48 pm 
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Penguin

Joined: 03 Jun 2008
Posts: 95
'Bring their skills and knowledge to a higher level' is in my opinion to get help on what books to read etc. Didnt you read my post, as i said exactly that. However, we are getting beyong the thread purpuse atm, i stated my opinion about the matter and about Bucky and thats all.

I find it an interesting subject though. And although what Derren Brown does is good, but as i said before i got thoughts on how to do that, what Paul brook does in this video I find more intriging and really dont got any clue were something as this can be learned.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKdqJkMNS1I


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 6:44 pm 
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born to perform.

Joined: 10 Dec 2005
Posts: 1394
Location: Newmarket, ON, Canada
Heijmans wrote:
Bucky, in no way I asked anything on a bad or demanding tone to you, and if you think I have, it wasn’t my intention. I know this, but my point was it is against the rules to ask someone to PM you.

However, your tone is pretty much made out of ignorance. Nope, honesty, like Lensman has pointed out

Your cold reading skills must be very high to know anything from me including my knowledge of mentalism. Actually they aren't, but if you had read up on things like NLP and hypnosis or even some of the more advanced tricks you could work this one out no problem, even the Paul Brook one.

And if you think you’re higher or better, then give me the books you think I need to read in all your wisdom excellence... That ignorant tone helps nobody, I was being honest, I'm not going to apologize if it sounded harsh to you, deal with it yourself. If you want to get started on those things read Sleight of Mind (as it will give a good background on NLP) and pick out a good hypnosis book for yourself (I don't read those so I cannot recommend one)

I got my thoughts on this, but as you and i know there are many roads to Rome, i just was interested in the vision you shared with Lensman. And that was supposed to be between Lensman and myself. There are no secrets in what we talked about, we only discussed possibilities. However, if you were uneducated on the same topic, it would be a secret to you and divulging that for free is unethical, magically speaking of course.

Also you’re statements are made of rubbish, in a forum you pretty much don’t know anyone (except a few), and if I see, lensman is only a member a few months earlier than I am. Look at his post count, he's here a lot more than you are, and he posts with quality. That's why I know him better. I'm not saying you're an idiot or anything, I'm just saying I only discuss these sort of things with people I know to be dedicated forum members.

I noticed many times from the times I became a member that you always were rude or harsh against members asking questions here in the mentalist section, to sad. No, I'm not more rude or harsh than I need to be. If I were to hold someone's hand and tell them that they can easily do what Derren Brown, Max Maven, Gerry McCambridge, or any other prominent mentalist does, they'd be so disappointed to realize how much they'd have to read, practice and perfect everything just to get to half the level that those people are at. So maybe I can be harsh or rude, but the people who stay and realize that I'm only trying to help the willing, end up being good mentalists, which in turn helps our art by the way.

again I not intented you to think that i demanded a pm, i was just a curious Nor did I say you demanded it, I said you asked for one

but again you state that i can figire it out by myself as a reasen not to pm me Again, no I didn't, I said you had the information necessary in the thread. I put the information down on June 15th according to the post date, so go and read that post and you'll see what I meant... I hope.

and then on the other hand start a discussion in this subject against Lens on pm, your piont is not legitimate at this case, you must think youre post out a bit more. I don't understand, you think that me trying to help out a fellow (and dedicated) mentalist is bad because I will not help out the people I don't know on the forum to be dedicated? Ask pupeteer_berlin if he's ever got that help from me, or any of the people who do not post in the mentalism section. See my belief is the following: if someone shows dedication towards mentalism (and that I see that dedication), I have no problem helping them out in a healthy discussion. The problem with people such as yourself is that they expect to be handed everything and basically that puts you in the same category as the annoying little 13 year olds here who ask questions such as "where can I learn to be the next david blaine? he's so awesome OMG!" Sorry if that sounds harsh to you, but it is my opinion and I'm entitled to it here.

People are coming here to bring their skills and knowledge to a higher level, seemingly you don’t want that to happen as i noticed many of youre reactions As stated above, my reactions are justified and they help dedicated people, not lazy, trick seekers who only want to learn something from a dvd. And after they have learned it, go out, perform it terribly and hurt the art of mentalism because they exposed how something is done.


So let me say one more thing. I may sound harsh or rude at times, but it helps those people out by telling them it is not an easy thing to be an awesome mentalist. Sure it is easy to learn the stuff, but it is nearly impossible to present everything in the manner that mentalism demands. Remember it is 90% presentation, 10% skill. It is not as simple as walking into a magic shop, or going online, buying a book, reading it, and then going out and performing. That is why I'm a little harsh or rude at times. Hopefully you understand why I'm doing that and why it protects the art, even if I upset a few 13 year olds (I'm not including you in their group) along the way.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 9:40 pm 
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born to perform.

Joined: 21 Feb 2007
Posts: 1581
Location: Your mind
In my honest opinion I think it is wise not to share thoughts upon demand, unless the person which has the information is willing to share it. I think Bucky did the right thing... Nothing to argue against that !

For those which are interested to find interesting paths and approach to those kinds of experiments should get Ormond Mcgill's new encyclopedia of stage hypnosis, it's a benemoth 700 pages book, everything about stage hypnosis business to entertainment is there, the book is also full of test and experiment of the like, I guess you can get it aroun de 50-60$ price range on Amazon (even if the shipping& handling prices are the worst you will ever see).

Sleight of mind is a good all rounder, but it has nothing to do with this effect.

Though, be warefull about televised mentalism, it could we be a very well coordinated action planned before the shoot, what you see and what the spectators have been told between the frames is not the same, there's a lot of potential for pre-show hypnosis, or any kind of directors cut delicacy pre-planned frames.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 4:04 am 
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Joined: 03 Jun 2008
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You made youre piont bucky though i still mostly dont like youre tone in much occasions. If if there are 13 years asking stupid questions you could still choose to act normal. I know that Derren Brown stated in his book that a mentalists image is everything, and that he tries to be polite in all occasions. However, that of cource is the difference between a proffesional and a more hobbyist.

Still i can live with youre answer bucky :D, but in 'The stage enc.' i really dont find good clues of how Paul brook did what he did, fascinating.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 9:26 pm 
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Emperor Penguin

Joined: 15 Jun 2008
Posts: 16777215
strange discussion. of course a magic forum is also to 'Bring their skills and knowledge to a higher level'. bucki did this in a pm. usally he calls sharing secrets exosoure. well i allready faced his applying double standards.

if you wonna know how the trick works just buy the dvd from jonathan royle. he sells this stuff. maybe he does not fit in buckies reality but in facts you can buy the secret right there for a few bucks.


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