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 Post subject: What do you think of this set/routine?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 3:38 am 
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I think that's what you'd call it...
Anyways, I'm doing a talent show. This would be my first stage performance. I've been doing close-up for very long and have done a few close-up shows, but this is my first stage as I've previously said.

Okay, so the MC would intro me "Blah blah Michael has done years of close-up but is doing his first stage for us blah blah". Then I would walk in with my FedEx envelope for "Vanishing Bandana" then do my whole "I decided that since this is my first stage show that instead of messing up my first trick and embarrassing myself at the beginning, I'd start by learning a trick with you guys so we can all be happy." Blah blah, you can fill in the rest.

Then..

I would do my own version of a "Tossed Out Deck".
And then I'd like to do something else probably.


Do you think that would be effective? Yes, I know it comes down to my performance but I am wondering whether or not the patter for the first trick works with the second.
Also, what other trick would you suggest for a closer?

Thanks!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 10:15 am 
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Personally, I'd never open with Vanishing Bandana. On one hand, the presentational hook of showing the audience how you learn a trick works best after you've shown them a few other tricks and actually established yourself as someone they care to watch; on the other hand, your hands will be covered in sticky banana goo -- not optimal for continuing to do magic.

Also, IMHO, Vanishing Bandana and the Tossed-Out Deck don't belong in the same show, let alone the same "set." Some guys will say that it doesn't matter... that a seasoned performer with good scripting skills could pull it off. Perhaps... but you are not a seasoned performer with good scripting skills.

So... to your questions...

solexmate wrote:
Do you think that would be effective? No.

Yes, I know it comes down to my performance but I am wondering whether or not the patter for the first trick works with the second.

Not exacty sure what you're asking here; sounds like you're trying to use the same patter for two different tricks in a row.

Also, what other trick would you suggest for a closer?

I'd suggest closing with Vanishing Bandana and opening with the "something else" you haven't come up with yet. And just drop the Tossed-Out Deck.


This is not the first time an amateur close-up magician with no stage experience has decided to include the Tossed-out Deck in a school talent show and come on these boards asking for advice. Unfortunately, it probably won't be the last time, either. It depresses, frustrates, and angers me that so many young, inexperienced magicians view the Tossed-Out Deck as some kind of easy way out. Sure, the mechanics are simple... but the performance is not.

Respect the magic, guys. Respect the magic.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 12:22 pm 
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TheCaffeinator wrote:
Personally, I'd never open with Vanishing Bandana. On one hand, the presentational hook of showing the audience how you learn a trick works best after you've shown them a few other tricks and actually established yourself as someone they care to watch; on the other hand, your hands will be covered in sticky banana goo -- not optimal for continuing to do magic.

Also, IMHO, Vanishing Bandana and the Tossed-Out Deck don't belong in the same show, let alone the same "set." Some guys will say that it doesn't matter... that a seasoned performer with good scripting skills could pull it off. Perhaps... but you are not a seasoned performer with good scripting skills.

So... to your questions...

solexmate wrote:
Do you think that would be effective? No.

Yes, I know it comes down to my performance but I am wondering whether or not the patter for the first trick works with the second.

Not exacty sure what you're asking here; sounds like you're trying to use the same patter for two different tricks in a row.

Also, what other trick would you suggest for a closer?

I'd suggest closing with Vanishing Bandana and opening with the "something else" you haven't come up with yet. And just drop the Tossed-Out Deck.


This is not the first time an amateur close-up magician with no stage experience has decided to include the Tossed-out Deck in a school talent show and come on these boards asking for advice. Unfortunately, it probably won't be the last time, either. It depresses, frustrates, and angers me that so many young, inexperienced magicians view the Tossed-Out Deck as some kind of easy way out. Sure, the mechanics are simple... but the performance is not.

Respect the magic, guys. Respect the magic.


Just because someone is not a seasoned pro doesn't mean they could not perform the TOD effectively, its very possible he may be able to pull it off very well. You don't know till you try.

,Tyler


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 12:38 pm 
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I didn't say "seasoned pro." I said "seasoned performer," which does allow for the possibility that an experienced amateur could effectively perform the TOD. However, you're conveniently leaving out the part about "good scripting skills."

I do not and will not encourage someone to go out and peform a half-a55ed show just because they can. The attitude of "the worst you can do is screw up" neither indicates nor encourages any respect for the art of magic, not to mention the audience members.

It may be that solexmate puts on a fine performance at the talent show; I hope he does. I just don't think that the performance should include the TOD, based on his own admitted experience level and demonstrated scripting & routine-building skill.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 1:32 pm 
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Well it sounds like the whole thing's only half formed anyway, sit and know exactly what you want to do before you go out there. In fact go deeper, ask yourself "what do you want to communicate to your audiance?" then look at how you can express that in performance.

As a final thought, and I'm only stating my opinion here, but the tossed out deck is useful for getting one ahead.... and that's about it as far as I'm concerned.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 1:59 pm 
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Thank you guys for your input!

Caffeinator
I don't think it's far to say or imply that I'm not "respecting the magic". I am just in the beginning stages of this whole thing. I am not, as I've said, a stage magician, so I don't know these things, such as what flows, what opens, etc.
I'm curious to see what brings you to think that I can't perform a tossed out deck? It's a little offending that you make so many assumptions about me. I'll remind you that you don't know me.

Thanks though, guys. I'll consider revision.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 2:27 pm 
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solexmate wrote:
Thank you guys for your input!

Caffeinator
I don't think it's far to say or imply that I'm not "respecting the magic". I am just in the beginning stages of this whole thing. I am not, as I've said, a stage magician, so I don't know these things, such as what flows, what opens, etc.
I'm curious to see what brings you to think that I can't perform a tossed out deck? It's a little offending that you make so many assumptions about me. I'll remind you that you don't know me.

Thanks though, guys. I'll consider revision.



Respecting magic means, in part, knowing who you are and what your abilities are with respect to magic and choosing magic to learn and perform in accordance with those abilities. It also means -- and this is something that I know many of the members here just don't understand or care about -- that some material really should be left to the working professionals. I know that saying this is opening up a big can of worms and that it is likely to result in lots of objections and flaming... but I really don't care. It's what I believe and what many working professionals believe, and I'm not going to bother explaining why I believe it to people who basically won't care but just want to do whatever they want to do because they think they can do it.

As far as "fair" is concerned, I don't think it's "fair" when any kid with access to his mom's credit card can go online and purchase a piece of professional grade magic, spend a few hours playing with it in his room, and then stumble through it in an assembly or talent show or some other "public" event.

Anyway... I wasn't saying that you specifically are not respecting magic, though I do believe that if you go ahead and perform the TOD in the set as you are describing it you will not be respecting magic. My statement about respecting magic was a general one directed at past and present members who think that they can simply buy a challenging piece of professional magic and toss it into their "stage act" when they in fact have no stage experience at all. This forum is full of examples of this.

I'm not making assumptions about you and never said you COULDN'T perform the TOD. I'm responding to what you said about yourself and, based on those things, I said you SHOULDN'T perform the TOD, especially not in a set that opens with the Vanishing Bandana.

You're a close-up magician; the TOD is not a close-up trick. You have no stage experience; the TOD is a stage/platform trick (yes, Gazzo does it on the street... but given the size of the crowds he performs it for, it's pretty much a stage/platform presentation... theatre-in-the-round is closer to stage work than it is to close-up). You "don't know these things, such as what flows, what opens, etc."; placing the TOD into a routine requires knowing such things. Your own description of yourself and your abilities is what led to my advice... not "assumptions." No, I don't know you... but I know what you said about yourself, and I know what it takes to perform magic well.

If you want someone to pat you on the head and tell you to run off and do whatever you think is right because the world is full of rainbows and shiny elves and everything will be alright with whatever decision you make about your show, listen to guys like tkies. If you want advice on how to give the best show possible within the context of your skillset and abilities, listen to me.


Last edited by TheCaffeinator on Tue Sep 08, 2009 3:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 2:32 pm 
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arkham666 wrote:
...sit and know exactly what you want to do before you go out there. In fact go deeper, ask yourself "what do you want to communicate to your audiance?" then look at how you can express that in performance.



Well said.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 5:03 pm 
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Thank you.
Let me first say that I'm in college, this isn't a high school performance.

Second, you're taking this way too seriously, like incredibly.
But thanks. I'm considering the revisions. I appreciate your advice and putting me in my place.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 10:44 pm 
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solexmate wrote:
Thank you.
Let me first say that I'm in college, this isn't a high school performance.

Second, you're taking this way too seriously, like incredibly.
But thanks. I'm considering the revisions. I appreciate your advice and putting me in my place.


Theres no such thing as too seriously 'round here :lol:


You'll get used to it.


Sean


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 10:29 am 
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solexmate wrote:
Let me first say that I'm in college, this isn't a high school performance.


Thanks for that info. Context is very important in order for us to give you the most useful advice.

First thing I'd say, knowing this is a college thing, is that Vanishing Bandana, while a good, fun routine that can be made to play for adults (so can Hippity Hop Rabbits :wink: ) might be considered to much like "kiddie magic" by your audience. Tossed Out Deck might actually be more appropriate in this scenario. But let's set both of those pieces aside for a moment.

You're predominantly a close-up magician. You want to transition to stage, even if it's only briefly. One thing that might keep your comfort level high is to do stage material that uses props you know -- close-up props. So what close-up props can play well on stage? The ones that come to mind first for me are cards.

Now, you've already thought about the TOD, but I'd suggest something more visual... something that keeps the action more on stage, as well.

You haven't given any sort of time frame, i.e., how much time you have to prep for this, which is another important piece of context. Assuming you have quite a while, I'd recommend picking up Michael Finney's Live at Lake Tahoe DVD set. On it you'll find a number of routines that might appeal to you, as well as your target audience. Check out his Six-Card Repeat and Card on Forehead routines, in particular. Although it might be a bit outside your comfort zone, also look at his Lady Rope Routine (basically a cut & restored rope routine); it's funny, sexy, and a little crude... which is just what a lot of college audiences want to see.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 12:35 pm 
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Sounds good! Just to let you know, I'm a really outgoing guy, so no problems anywhere with comfort zones.

I was thinking of this:

Coming out to some upbeat music with like 8 ties hung over two arms and asking people to pick an arm, pick one to go to the other arm, etc. all using Magician's Choice to reveal that I chose the same tie which I am wearing under my suit jacket/vest.

Then go into my Vanishing Bandana. I'll wipe my hands off, probably with a yellow bandana after the trick for comedy, then go into an Insurance Policy. That will probably be it unless I put in a jumbo Invisible Deck.

BTW this routine was inspired by a great magician Justin Kredible who I admire a lot.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 12:49 pm 
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solexmate wrote:
...I'm a really outgoing guy, so no problems anywhere with comfort zones.


I'm referring more to skill level and performance/venue experience than to personality.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 12:59 pm 
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solexmate wrote:
I'll wipe my hands off, probably with a yellow bandana after the trick for comedy...


That's how I always close my VB routine. However, I find it never gets my hands clean enough for me to feel comfortable working with any other props (especially cards), which is one of the reasons why, when I do VB, it's my closer.

The thing about VB is that the dirtier and stickier and gooier you get, the better the routine plays. Bits of banana falling on the floor and squirting out between your fingers really make the routine work. Cleaning up and continuing to perform after that is not easy.

Sure, you can try to handle the banana more delicately and minimize the mess, but that defeats the purpose. Also, you can have a bowl of warm water and a washcloth on hand, but that suggests that you knew what was going to happen all along, undercutting the overall impact of the routine.

You could always go for comedy by planting someone in the audience with a bucket of water and a huge towel. At the close of VB, sheepishly ask, "Anybody got a Wet Nap...?" Then your plant comes up with a bucket and a squeegee or whatever and scrubs you down. Act like you have no idea what is going on... play it big for laughs... lay it on thick... The funnier you make it, the less anyone will care that it's a setup.


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