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 Post subject: Re: New to mentalism.
PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 12:59 pm 
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bucky310 wrote:
That's what learning those stupid card tricks that anyone can do are for. Mentalism is a tough craft... at least, if you get it right it is.

Maybe I'm interpreting this wrong, but I thought that comment was quite a slap in the face to many great magicians who have earned their LIVING doing card tricks. Harry Lorayne, Darwin Ortiz, Juan Tamariz, Helder Guimaraes, and on and on and on. I completely agree that mentalism is a tough craft, but doing "stupid card tricks" is just about as tough IMO. Sure any beginner can go learn a self-working card trick, but that same beginner could also go learn a simple mentalism effect and do it. The only thing is that the beginner would present both of these effects badly! Not just the mentalism! Mastering a card trick to make it entertaining is just as difficult as mastering a mentalism effect.

That comment seemed like it was along the same lines as "mentalists are better than stupid magicians." Again sorry if I misinterpreted, but this comment frustrated me.


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 Post subject: Re: New to mentalism.
PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 5:36 pm 
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Location: Sweden
DavidTheCryptic wrote:
Lensman wrote:
he has a point though, you might want some instant gratification and just have fun with it


You dont get into magic for INSTANT gratification.


Many do at the beginning. They learn something quick, get out and perform it, get a reaction, and THEN they might get the dedication to read books twice and practice and rehearse. At least that's how I started, I don't think we can expect from all beginners to have that dedication right from the start.


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 Post subject: Re: New to mentalism.
PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 5:54 pm 
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Joined: 10 Dec 2005
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Location: Newmarket, ON, Canada
evanbishop wrote:
bucky310 wrote:
That's what learning those stupid card tricks that anyone can do are for. Mentalism is a tough craft... at least, if you get it right it is.

Maybe I'm interpreting this wrong, but I thought that comment was quite a slap in the face to many great magicians who have earned their LIVING doing card tricks. Harry Lorayne, Darwin Ortiz, Juan Tamariz, Helder Guimaraes, and on and on and on. I completely agree that mentalism is a tough craft, but doing "stupid card tricks" is just about as tough IMO. Sure any beginner can go learn a self-working card trick, but that same beginner could also go learn a simple mentalism effect and do it. The only thing is that the beginner would present both of these effects badly! Not just the mentalism! Mastering a card trick to make it entertaining is just as difficult as mastering a mentalism effect.

That comment seemed like it was along the same lines as "mentalists are better than stupid magicians." Again sorry if I misinterpreted, but this comment frustrated me.


Not what I meant, but I can see how you can read it as such. What I meant by "stupid card tricks" were the self-working ones that friends teach other friends when neither of them are magicians. Ones that do not come with any tips on presentation, patter or anything at all. Just the silly ones that people do like the one where you have something like 4 cards left in your hand and they slap out the other three to reveal yours. Those are the card tricks I'm talking about. Card magicians are by no means any less of a magician than mentalists. They're way more technically sound, at least with a deck of cards, than most mentalists I'd assume. So yeah, no bad comments meant towards card magicians.


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 Post subject: Re: New to mentalism.
PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 6:30 pm 
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bucky310 wrote:
evanbishop wrote:
bucky310 wrote:
That's what learning those stupid card tricks that anyone can do are for. Mentalism is a tough craft... at least, if you get it right it is.

Maybe I'm interpreting this wrong, but I thought that comment was quite a slap in the face to many great magicians who have earned their LIVING doing card tricks. Harry Lorayne, Darwin Ortiz, Juan Tamariz, Helder Guimaraes, and on and on and on. I completely agree that mentalism is a tough craft, but doing "stupid card tricks" is just about as tough IMO. Sure any beginner can go learn a self-working card trick, but that same beginner could also go learn a simple mentalism effect and do it. The only thing is that the beginner would present both of these effects badly! Not just the mentalism! Mastering a card trick to make it entertaining is just as difficult as mastering a mentalism effect.

That comment seemed like it was along the same lines as "mentalists are better than stupid magicians." Again sorry if I misinterpreted, but this comment frustrated me.


Not what I meant, but I can see how you can read it as such. What I meant by "stupid card tricks" were the self-working ones that friends teach other friends when neither of them are magicians. Ones that do not come with any tips on presentation, patter or anything at all. Just the silly ones that people do like the one where you have something like 4 cards left in your hand and they slap out the other three to reveal yours. Those are the card tricks I'm talking about. Card magicians are by no means any less of a magician than mentalists. They're way more technically sound, at least with a deck of cards, than most mentalists I'd assume. So yeah, no bad comments meant towards card magicians.

Okay good :D. I hope I didn't sound too angry there. Anyway, glad we cleared that up!


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 Post subject: Re: New to mentalism.
PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 10:58 pm 
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Joined: 10 Dec 2005
Posts: 1394
Location: Newmarket, ON, Canada
evanbishop wrote:
bucky310 wrote:
evanbishop wrote:
Maybe I'm interpreting this wrong, but I thought that comment was quite a slap in the face to many great magicians who have earned their LIVING doing card tricks. Harry Lorayne, Darwin Ortiz, Juan Tamariz, Helder Guimaraes, and on and on and on. I completely agree that mentalism is a tough craft, but doing "stupid card tricks" is just about as tough IMO. Sure any beginner can go learn a self-working card trick, but that same beginner could also go learn a simple mentalism effect and do it. The only thing is that the beginner would present both of these effects badly! Not just the mentalism! Mastering a card trick to make it entertaining is just as difficult as mastering a mentalism effect.

That comment seemed like it was along the same lines as "mentalists are better than stupid magicians." Again sorry if I misinterpreted, but this comment frustrated me.


Not what I meant, but I can see how you can read it as such. What I meant by "stupid card tricks" were the self-working ones that friends teach other friends when neither of them are magicians. Ones that do not come with any tips on presentation, patter or anything at all. Just the silly ones that people do like the one where you have something like 4 cards left in your hand and they slap out the other three to reveal yours. Those are the card tricks I'm talking about. Card magicians are by no means any less of a magician than mentalists. They're way more technically sound, at least with a deck of cards, than most mentalists I'd assume. So yeah, no bad comments meant towards card magicians.

Okay good :D. I hope I didn't sound too angry there. Anyway, glad we cleared that up!


Not at all... glad we cleared it up myself.


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 Post subject: Re: New to mentalism.
PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 3:45 pm 
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Joined: 13 Nov 2003
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Location: Pittsburgh, PA
That's what I was thinking too, thanks for clearing it up Bucky.

-JT


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