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 Post subject: Starting Mentalism.. Need help
PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2004 12:02 pm 
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Penguin

Joined: 23 Nov 2003
Posts: 35
Location: Paris, France
Ive been doing card magic for two years now. i am planning to start mentalism ..and i am not sure what book should i choose between "Pre-thougths by Banachek" or "Practical Mental Magic by Annemanne".
Im also planning to buy the Vol.1 of Osterlind's DVD.

I would like to hear your suggestions... Thanks!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2004 12:10 pm 
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Penguin

Joined: 19 Jul 2003
Posts: 412
you should start with the very beginning with 13 steps to mentalism by Corinda. Everyone who is interested in starting mentalism should start by reading this book. You won't really buy this book for the effects and routines that are in it but more to understand what is mentalism and how should a mentalist think.

I heard a lot too about Practical mental magic by Anneman and you should get a hand on those books too. Those 3 books will give you a solid basic fondation in mentalism and it,s then up to you to choose from the other material out there what will be for you.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2004 12:16 pm 
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Penguin

Joined: 23 Nov 2003
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Location: Paris, France
but penguin dont sell the 13 steps to mentalism...
which would be better? Pre-thoughts or Practical Mental Magic?

by the way, i live in france, i always buy in penguin and wouldn't buy books if penguin dont carry them. thanks for the reply! :D


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2004 1:08 pm 
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born to perform.

Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 893
not pre thoughts.
practical mental magic would be better. but i urge you to get corinda from another dealer.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2004 1:29 pm 
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born to perform.

Joined: 13 Jun 2003
Posts: 844
Penguin is a great site but if you are truely interested in Mentalism and not just Mental Magic then you are going to have to shop at other places. I just wanted to let you know and plus there is alot more in the magic world as a whole than what Penguin offers. I used to only shop here but there is just a limit to what they have and what I do is if I find something somewhere else I check to see if Penguin has it but if not I get it from the other place. What I am trying to say is don't limit yourself.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2004 1:47 pm 
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Penguin

Joined: 23 Nov 2003
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Location: Paris, France
ok i agree so can you PM me a site where you buy . ( cheap and nice service) :wink:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2004 2:11 pm 
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Penguin

Joined: 19 Jul 2003
Posts: 412
here is a few sites that i found that sells it but unfortunately I never experienced any of those so I can't tell you how is the service and shipping etc.

http://www.magicbox.uk.com/product.php/009/00828/

http://www.ronjo.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=R&Product_Code=13stepsment&Category_Code=mtbk&Product_Count=2

http://www.magicgeek.com/products/z13steps.html

http://shop.store.yahoo.com/magicmusicandmore-store/13steptomen.html

it's there too at ebay right now

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2231535510&category=14014


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2004 2:15 pm 
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Penguin

Joined: 23 Nov 2003
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Location: Paris, France
thanks alot! i'll buy it in a month maybe. i have no money now cause i will buy Mind Mysteries of Osterlind. (don't know whether vol. 1 or Vol. 2: maybe some suggestions?) i may buy Practical Mental Magic, what are it's contents? does it have decent tricks? thanks :wink:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2004 2:34 pm 
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born to perform.

Joined: 13 Jun 2003
Posts: 844
Annemann's book is very good..I have it and am planning on using some effects from it in a show soon (hopefully) it full of working material. Practice alot...but for 10 bucks it is more than worth it.

Here is a list of the table of contents

CONTENTS
CHAPTER I: EFFECTS WITH BILLETS AND PELLETS
Bert Reese Secrets 7
Billet Switching 11
A Question and the Answer 13
The Al Baker 3 Billet Trick 15
A Day in Your Life 16
The Germain Gem 18
Tervil 20
Mental Hat Pin 22
Devil Device 24
The O. M. Billet Switching Box 26
The Ghost of a Chance 28
Crystal Clear 29
CHAPTER II: PUBLICITY EFFECTS
Mindreading Publicity Effect 30
News Event Prediction 31
The Unknown Subject 32
Publicity Stunt 33
On the Wire 33
Wired Thought 35
The Impression Moderne 35
A Cute Publicity Stunt 36
Death Flight 36
Impromptu Vision 37
A Neat Publicity Trick 38
Television Compact 39
Graphology 40
CHAPTER III: DEAD OR ALIVE
From Beyond the Grave 42
Two Papers and a Spectator 43
More Living Than Dead 45
Dead or Alive 45
The Secret 47
Dr. Daley's Death Divination 48
The Ghost Hand 48
Dead! 49
Hades Calling! 50
Nyctalopia 50
Entity Alone 51
CHAPTER IV: BOOK TESTS
Between the Lines 53
The Yogi Book Test 54
The Perfect Book Test 56
Whim of Tituba 57
Dice and a Book 59
The World on the Page 60
Monk's Mystery 61
The Double Ad Test 62
Symmyst 64
Behind That Door 66
20th Century Newspaper Test 68
The Jaipur Jinnee 69
40,000 Words 71
Another Dictionary Effect 73
David P. Abbott's Book Test 75
CHAPTER V: THOUGHT FORETOLD
Pocket Prophecies 77
Contruction of the Annemann's Billet Index 78
The Original Effect 80
Lady and Gentleman 81
The Omega Card Prophecy 81
Orville Meyer's Twin Prediction 82
The Improved Buckley Method 83
Annemann's Ballot Box Divination 84
Tomorrow's Card 86
CHAPTER VI: MISCELLANEOUS MENTAL MASTERPIECES
Sefalaljia 89
Telethot 93
The Astral Shirt 96
Impromptu Frame-Ups 97
The Phantom Artist 100
Travel Thought 102
Taps! 103
Finger-Finger 104
Lock and Key 105
Telepathy on the Cuff 106
Number Thot 106
The New Half and Half 107
Horrors 109
Black Pin Idea 111
Voodoo 111
Encore Voodoo 113
Krazy Kode 115
Operator Calling 116
Divination with Matches 116
Calendar Conjuring 117
Date Sense 119
Shades of Sherlock Holmes 120
Triumph of the Triumvirate 121
Prophetic Tissue 124
Ball of Fortune 125
CHAPTER VII: ENVELOPE NECROMANCY
My Own Swami Test 127
Triple Coercion 129
Modernized Reading 130
Pseudo-Psychometry 132
Modernizing the "One Ahead" Principle 133
An Original Faked Envelope 137
Bluebeard's 7 Wenches 139
Just and Echo 141
Who Killed Mr. X? 144
The Astral Ad 147
Re-incarnation 150
Prediction 152
Dark Sorcery 153
CHAPTER VIII: MIRACLE SLATE ROUTINES
The Perfect Club Slate Routine 155
Extra Sensory Perception 157
Notaria 159
A Torn Letter 161
Headline Hunter 163
Psychic Slate Test 165
The Gysel Slate 166
Before Your Eyes 168
Walter Gibson's Method 170
Phantom Hand 170
Ultra Slate Message 172
The Answer 173
Never Fail 175
Ultra Addition 176
Sacred Script 178
Tribal Try 180
Duo Telepathy 182
Slate Immortality 183
Half and Half 184
Numero 187
The Super Slates 189
Gabbatha 190
Ghost Writer 191
Nonpareil 192
My Case 194
20th Century Slate Test 196
The Schoolbag 196
Knockout 198
A Slate and a Number 199
Ghost Writer 200
Thought Rays 202
Fatal Number 203
Familiar Spirit 204
The Psychic Slate 206
A Thought-out Thought 206
Psychic Type 207
Mixed Mystery 209
Chalk on Metal Slates Tip 211
CHAPTER IX: MONEY MENTALISM
Controlled Currency 212
A Mentalist with Money 215
Dollar Bill Switch 216
Mystic Perception 217
Pay Day 218
Numismatigic 219
The Knickel of Kanadah 220
Dates 221
Duplex Date Reading 222
CHAPTER X: BLINDFOLD READING
Par-Optic Vision 224
New Sheet Reading 226
The Mystery of the Blackboard 228
In the Mind 229
With Sight Unseen 233
Mephisto Thot 234
CHAPTER XI: MENTALISM WITH CARDS
Magic vs. Mentalism 237
A Card to Be Thought About 239
Mind or Muscle? 239
Yggdrasil 241
Secret Order of the Aces 244
Parallel Thoughts 245
Volition 246
Waiting Place for Unknown Thoughts 248
The Brain Wave Deck 249
I'll Read Your Mind 251
A Peculiar Happenstance 252
You and Yours - Me and Mine 253
Parade of the Lamas 254
The Twin Princess 256
Cherchez La Lady 258
Open Minds 258
Forced Prognostico 260
The Dream of a Hermit 262
Mystic Matching 263
Mental Rescue 265
Copy Cat 266
Ghostatic Touch 267
The Guidance of Fate 268
Hypnosthesia 269
Mental Numbers 271
As in a Mirror Darkly 273
New $1000 Test Card Location 275
Utility Routine 276
Only on Image 278
Crystal-Viso 280
"Before Your Eyes" Business Card 281
Controlled Luck 281
A Mental Test Revamped 282
Diabolical Influence 283
CHAPTER XII: PSYCHIC CODES
Weird Wire 286
Thoughts in the Air 289
The Eyes Have It 291
A Practical Card Code 292
Complete Silent Thought Transmission Act 294
A New Method of Tabulation 300
Moonlight Madness 301
Hit Parade 309


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2004 3:37 pm 
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born to perform.

Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 893
mark_v, tricks are for kids. effects and performance are for mentalists. if you want o learn mentalism by getting a bunch of tricks first, you will b on the wrong path.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2004 10:52 pm 
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born to perform.

Joined: 14 Jul 2003
Posts: 572
Location: Chicago
Partyboy13, David_A_Whitehead, and The1complainer are all exactly on track, Mark_v (and just look at all that typing The1complainer did for you!).

This topic has been broached before; see the sticky at the top of the Mentalism section. Or just click here:
http://www.penguinmagic.com/discuss/vie ... hp?t=43647

With that said, in mentalism the name of the game is books. Usually old books. So if you don't like to read books, mentalism probably isn't for you.

But if the books you need aren't on the Penguin site, that doesn't necessarily mean that you have to shop elsewhere.

Call or email the folks at Penguin. If you tell them what books you'd like, they can probably special order them for you. And if enough other people ask for them too, I'd be surprised if they didn't start carrying these titles on a regular basis.

Phone: (702) 734-3333
Email: Customerservice@penguinmagic.com, Sales@penguinmagic.com

Go ahead. Call or email Penguin. You'll get the books you want so you'll be happy; the folks at Penguin will make more sales, so they'll be happy; and Penguin Magic will ultimately become a better store for mentalists and mental magicians, so we will all be happy.

Best,
Neil


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2004 12:24 am 
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Penguin

Joined: 23 Nov 2003
Posts: 35
Location: Paris, France
thanks alot guys! specially to the1complainer :wink: ill will ask penguin for the book of corinda. but not for now, cause i have no money :(
ill get it soon....... thanks alot again!

P.S. by the way Neil, I love the Xpert! :)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2004 10:07 am 
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born to perform.

Joined: 13 Jun 2003
Posts: 844
Neil, Thank you for the idea,I really hadn't thought about asking Penguin to special order before and will try to do this also. I also wanted to say thanks to you Neil and David for being a good positive presence here at Penguin in the Mentalism forum, it is nice to get good guidance so we can make it in the right direction.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2004 2:16 pm 
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born to perform.

Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 893
you're welcome. let me just say this. I started off in mentalism, switched to magic only recently, then switched back to magic. a weird path for sure. through my experience I found that you can get away with being a magician fairly easily. Once you know a couple of tricks and can use a deck of cards, people will immediately perceive you to be a magician. and even if you screw up a trick, they aren't that peeved...because they knew all along it was a TRICK. This is a hige distinction when doing mentalism. Mentalists can't risk fairlure, since what we claim is more "real'. Im not saying to tell your audiences that you are psychic, but the entertainment we provide is different. THere are so many magicians out there that people arent very entertained since they know already what is going to happen (card work, coins, cups and balls etc.) With the mentalist there is a sense of mystery and the fewer of us around the better. heck we get paid more too! Let me stop blabbing, what i am trying to say is i urge all potential mentalists, to get out of the magician's mindset. Get a firm foundation in the art by reading and studying and forget about "tricks" for now. Mentalism is about performance. Practice every day your billet switches, patter, misdirection and presentation. Learn some effects and perfect them. Mentalism is so much more than just predicting the future too. there are many wonderful branches to explore. Please do not try to become a mentalist just for the sake of adding a realm to your repertoire. do it because you are serious as a performer and you want to have your audiences experiece more than just a DL. Mentalism is the grown up form of magic. take it from there..

ps. dont worry about missing the sleight of hand action all you magicians crave. in mentalism there is a fair amount going on, just not as much as standard cardwork. but the sleights that do happen in mentalism have to happen flawlessly since we cannot risk failure as much as a magi can.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2004 2:16 pm 
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born to perform.

Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 893
you're welcome. let me just say this. I started off in mentalism, switched to magic only recently, then switched back to mentalism. a weird path for sure. through my experience I found that you can get away with being a magician fairly easily. Once you know a couple of tricks and can use a deck of cards, people will immediately perceive you to be a magician. and even if you screw up a trick, they aren't that peeved...because they knew all along it was a TRICK. This is a huge distinction when doing mentalism. Mentalists can't risk failure, since what we claim is more "real'. Im not saying to tell your audiences that you are psychic, but the entertainment we provide is different and more real to audiences. this is a whole different argument so I wont digress. There are so many magicians out there that people arent very entertained since they know already what is going to happen (card work, coins, cups and balls etc.) With the mentalist there is a sense of mystery and the fewer of us around the better. heck we get paid more too! Let me stop blabbing, what i am trying to say is i urge all potential mentalists, to get out of the magician's mindset. Get a firm foundation in the art by reading and studying the classics and forget about "tricks" for now. Mentalism is about performance. Practice every day your billet switches, peeking, patter, misdirection and presentation. Learn some effects and perfect them. Mentalism is so much more than just predicting the future too. there are many wonderful branches to explore. Please do not try to become a mentalist just for the sake of adding a realm to your magic repertoire. do it because you are serious as a performer and you want to have your audiences experiece more than just a DL. Mentalism is the grown up form of magic. take it from there..

ps. dont worry about missing the sleight of hand action all you magicians crave. in mentalism there is a fair amount going on, just not as much as standard cardwork. but the sleights that do happen in mentalism have to happen flawlessly since we cannot risk failure as much as a magi can. also several people successfully mix magic and mentalism (eg. Blaine, Karges, Kreskin etc) and it can be a beautiful experience. It takes considerable skill and a great persona to pull this off. It is certainly possible if you really wish to explore this aspect, just be careful. It is easy to screw up when you are inexperienced and try to mix the two.


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