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 Post subject: A riddle
PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2004 8:57 am 
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hi guys, I've been into magic for quite a while, but one thing happened ten years ago still confuse me, hopefully you guys who are experts in both magic and mentalism can help me to figure this out.

Back then, I was still a middle-school student in Hong Kong, one day I came across a guy looked like from India or middle east on the street who claimed that I was very lucky that day. To prove this, he wrote down three numbers on a piece of paper (I couldn't see them), and asked me to squeeze it in my hand. Then he asked me to think three number between one to fifty, and wrote them down. After I finished it, he asked me to open the paper he gave me, and, bingo, my three numbers absolutely matched what he wrote beforehand.......

I wonder if this is pure magic or mentalism, wish you guys can give me some clues, thanks a lot!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2004 9:06 am 
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born to perform.

Joined: 28 Dec 2003
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Location: Florida
It was an illusion. Exactly how he did it, I don't know (I can guess, but without seeing it done, my guesses would probably not be accurate), and I couldn't tell you if I did. (Board rules.) But if you want, you can learn to do things just as good, or better. Sorry for the evasive answer.

Robert V Frazier


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2004 3:19 pm 
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born to perform.

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Robert_V_Frazier wrote:
It was an illusion. Exactly how he did it, I don't know (I can guess, but without seeing it done, my guesses would probably not be accurate), and I couldn't tell you if I did. (Board rules.) But if you want, you can learn to do things just as good, or better. Sorry for the evasive answer.

Robert V Frazier


how could that be an illusion?!?! it makes no since..


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2004 3:56 pm 
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I have to agree i have no idea how it could be an illusion. :?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2004 4:03 pm 
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born to perform.

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Believe me, it can be done.

That's not to say that the person you encountered wasn't using true precognitive powers. Merely that the effect can be reproduced through deception. (And no, I will not be explaining how.)

Best,
Neil


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2004 4:13 pm 
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:roll:

As I said, I don't know how he did it, but think. It had to be an illusion (even if only based on human psychology). Because otherwise this character really could predict the future or read minds, and if he could do either one, do you really think he would be walking down the street doing magic tricks? Either of those powers, if real, would make it very easy to rule either the world or any subset of it that struck your fancy. Sheesh.

You want a wild guess? Here goes. The odds of getting that right by pure random chance are 50 X 49 X 48 (assuming three different numbers, 1 to 50). That's one in 117,600. Pretty long odds. If we assume that most people will pick 7 for one of those numbers, it reduces the odds to 49 X 48, or one in 2,352. Not impossible. People beat those odds all the time. If this guy made a study of what numbers people will guess most often in such a situation, he could reduce the odds further still. He could have just walked around giving the same pitch to everyone he met, using the same three numbers, and Danny happened to be one of this guy's lucky ones. That's one (admitedly not likely) scenario. I'm not an expert on mentalism effects -- quite the contrary.

Robert V Frazier


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2004 4:21 pm 
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now, did you open the paper, or did he open the paper?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2004 8:28 pm 
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One of many questions I'd like to know, before claiming that any effect like this is impossible . . .

Danny described the effect, not the specific details of what really happened. Any description of any good magic or mentalism effect is a description of a miracle. That's why they call it magic.

Get Neil Tobin's Xpert, and see for yourself how easy it is to do some things that any layman and most magicians would say just cannot be an illusion.

Robert V Frazier


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2004 9:40 pm 
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You're not going to get an accurate description of what the street performer did. Remember, Danny had this happen to him ten years ago. Recollection gets mighty hazy when viewed through the distance of a decade.

I'm not going to go into methodology. Just know that it exists and can be found by a serious student of mentalism.

Also, while I'm tickled that Robert has become such a vocal advocate of my product, please don't misread his recommendations and come to the conclusion that The Xpert will help you replicate this particular effect. It can help you do a lot of positively mind-melting things, to be sure -- just not this one.

Best,
Neil


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2004 1:06 am 
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Thanks for your replies, I really appreciate it.

I don't believe that guy have supernature power as he asked me for $100 for discovering my "Luck" that day, if he is a real "mind-reader", I bet there are many ways for him to make money rather than hanging around on the street. But I can't agree with Robert as well, because the odds that he could hit on all three numbers was very slim and, if so, the chance that he rely on this to make a living is even smaller; for instance, if he asked 100 people everyday, and succeed 10, and only one of ten was willing to pay, then he only got $100 per day (I belong to that nine people).

I also wathed a lot of Derren Brown TV, if that guy possess Derren's ability, I believe it's very easy for him to perform this effect.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2004 8:41 am 
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Danny, I'm not saying that I think he was relying on the odds. I expect that whatever method he was using, it would work either every time or in the vast majority of times it was tried. Just saying that "this could not be an illusion" is nonsense. Of course it could be, and I think it was, even though I haven't a clue how he did it.

Neil, thanks for clarifying that, in case I gave anyone the wrong impression. I'm pretty certain that the Xpert could not do that particular effect, and I'm absolutely certain that the magician in question didn't have the Xpert! I was just saying that given the right tools, anybody can do effects that will boggle the minds of those who don't know the secret.

I expect that whatever the method to the illusion that baffled Danny, that magician could have taught it to any reasonably bright 14-year-old. It sounds like an incredible effect though, and I'll bet that man made lots of money off it.

Robert V Frazier


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2004 10:02 am 
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I read this post since it first came out but refrained from commenting...however I will say this. The impression left by the mentalist in the above scenario is what was remembered. Probably not exactly what really happened. As Neil said, there are ways to do the effect and pull off a reaction like above. however, how it was stated, I can't really see any way to pull it off unless it was a psych. force.
the effect as I read it was: The guy wrote down a three digit number. I held the paper in my hand. He asked me to think of a three digits making up a number. I told him what I was thinking. I opened my hand and unfolded the paper (he never touched it) and it was the three digit number.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2004 10:30 am 
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The question is, DID HE OPEN THE PAPER??


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2004 9:32 pm 
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Ok, here comes more info, hopefully it helps...

Yes, I held that paper in my hand, and told him which three numbers I came up with, then he pulled out a very old photo which depict a group of people like a gathering of a mysterous religion group, he pointed an old man in the middle said "This is my master, he............., so if you are lucky today, you must give me $100, otherwise, you will be cursed......."

"No, No, I don't wanna do it", I said

"open that paper, just open it"

I OPENED THA PAPER.

Yes, his prediction was right, then I ran away and was very scared that night.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2004 10:44 pm 
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my guess is just odds and statistics. but i dont know.... for some reason i doubt he actually possesed magical powers. however, mentalism is the closest thing to real magic in my opinion and it is mainly about physcology and such. :?


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