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 Post subject: Music copyright responces
PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2003 1:10 pm 
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Penguin

Joined: 13 May 2003
Posts: 340
Location: Ogden, Utah
I e-mailed a number od places to get an answer to the question, "Is there a copyright violation with regard to music, when using music as a background for magic shows?"

Some of the responces replied with the message I sent, some didn't. Each new responce as an "*" in front of it.

When one source said it was up to publishers, I went there, when others said go to the copyright office I went there and etc...

As you can see responces are different which to me still leaves the question up in the air.

Please take the time to read all of the responces and let me know what conclustions you come up with. PM me or e-mail me at brucebunnell@networld.com

responces:

* IPWatchdog
Thanks for your interest in IPWatchdog.

Any time music is played in front of people in a situation like this there is a public performance and potential copyright infringement. Having said that, the burden is not on the performer to get the rights from the artist (or from their licensing representatives such as BMI or ASCAP). The burden is on the establishment where the performance is taking place. Most places have or should have BMI and/or ASCAP licenses. If you are doing a magic video, however, you would want to stay away from the use of copyrighted music. If you need music you might want to think about contacting an independent record label or local band who might be looking for some exposure and willing to let you use their stuff for free in exchange for the exposure.

I hope this helps.

Good luck.

-Gene

Eugene R. Quinn, Jr.
Patent Attorney & Law Professor
E-mail: Gene@IPWatchdog.com
Internet: www.IPWatchdog.com

* ASCAP
You need to contact the publisher of the songs for permission. Please visit our website ACE title search and enter the song title for publisher contact information. Thank you.


To: info@ascap.com
Subject: background music for magic shows

Referer: http://www.ascap.com/info-form.html
Browser: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.0.2)
Gecko/20021120 Netscape/7.01

NAME: Bruce Bunnell
EMAIL: brucebunnell@networld.com
COMMENTS: I have had many people ask me if it is a copyright infringment to play music from a tape/cd/record for background music in a magic show. The copyright office library of congress replied: " If this is background music to enhance your performance, then it becomes a licensing issue"The other source I checked with replied: "Any time music is played in front of people in a situation like this there is a public performance and potential copyright infringement." (IPWATCHDIG.COM). So, since the musiis not being performed by the magician, just magic, is there a problem?


Thanks
Bruce Bunnell



*MPA
Dear Mr. Bunnell:

Thank you for contacting the MPA. The MPA has produced the following online reference tools to assist those with general questions about copyright law: Copyright Resource Center (http://www.mpa.org/crc.html) and the Document Library (http://www.mpa.org/document.html). You may also refer to the United States Copyright Office website (www.copyright.gov). The MPA does not, however, dispense specific advice about copyright law. If you have a question about the use of a specific copyright, we suggest that you contact the publisher. If you have a general question about copyright law, we suggest that you contact an attorney with specific knowledge of copyright law.

In otherwords, the answer you got from ASCAP is the same one you will most likely receive from any kind of organization. You're asking for specific legal advice and that is something for which one must pay. Other than that, you absolutely must contact each publisher in order to seek permission to use their works in order to protect yourself. Most companies have a copyright/clearance dept./contact person to assist you in such matters.

Janna Mattson
MPA Administrator

Janna Mattson
MPA Administrator

From: Bruce Bunnell <brucebunnell@networld.com>
To: mpa-admin@mpa.org
Subject: background music for magic shows
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 13:28:59 -0600

I have tried to find out if playing music from a tape, record or cd for use as background music for a magic show is breaking any copyright laws. The copyright office of the library of congress says it is a licensing issue, not a copyright issue. A patent attorney said "Any time music is played in front of people in a situation like this there is a public performance and potential copyright infringement." The response I got from the ASCAP was that permission is needed from the publisher. Therefore I am contacting the Music Publishers Association.

Can you help me? Is playing music as background for a magic show violating any copyrights? My understanding is that it would not be a problem because the music is not being performed, rather played from a sound system. My impression based on information I found in the "Music Business Handbook". The audience is paying for a magic show, not a musical performance.

Do you know of anyone else that may have the answer?

Thank you for your help.
Bruce Bunnell

* Deseret Book
Bruce:

It is always safe to get permission to use music with your magic show. You will need to contact the publisher of the CD you wish to use for permission.
Pat

-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Bunnell [mailto:brucebunnell@networld.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 1:23 AM
To: pwilliam@deseretbook.com
Subject: background music for magic shows

I am wondering if there is a copyright infringement if I play music from
a cd I purchased, while doing a magic show. Is this a problem since I
am not "performing the music" but rather performing magic? (music
business handbook) I have checked with the U.S. copyright office along with the ASCAP and other sources. Some say it is a licensing issue, others a copyright issue and others say a publisher issue. I know you work with musicians and produce music so I am hoping you can either help me or point me to someone who can.
Thank you,
Bruce

*ALRY
Dear Bruce,

I really don't think there is a problem. ASCAP ssurveys the rights for all music, whether it is performed live or from a recording, so most of the technicalities have to do with where you are performing your magic show, and for whom. Most frequently, the performance venue takes cares of licensing the music.

Hope that helps.

Amy Blumenthal
ALRY Publications

*mastersmus@aol.com

There is no problem playing the CD at your show and is not a copyright infringement. Thank you for using our CD's

Sincerely,
L. Galison
Sales Manager

(Comment by Bruce: I get the idea that they thought I was asking for permission about one of their CD's rather than asking a general question.)

*BMI
Bruce,

The venue is responsible for acquiring the public performing rights
clearance. Pls take a look at the General Licensing agreements on our web
site:

www.bmi.com

*U.S.Copyright office
Thanks
If this is background music to enhance your performance, then it becomes a licensing issue which is handled by the premiere licensing agencies in New York: BMI (Broadcast Music Inc) 212-586-2000 and ASCAP (American Society of Composers and Authors) 212-595-3050 not the Copyright Office.

**********************************
Copyright Office
Library of Congress
101 Independence Ave SE
Washington DC 20559
(202) 707-3000
www.copyright.gov
**ls********************************


>>> <brucebunnell@networld.com> 07/20/03 05:25PM >>>
I have been using different songs from various artists for BACKGROUND MUSIC when I do magic shows. People say I am breaking the copyright law for music. These are paid "MAGIC" performances. The music is played from a tape/cd player, not performed. Is this a violation of any copyright laws?

Thank you,
Bruce Bunnell

Bruce Bunnell

Question submitted at 17:25 on 7/20/03.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2003 1:19 pm 
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born to perform.

Joined: 26 Apr 2003
Posts: 1981
Location: Cameron Roat
Wow....looks like you did your research. All that run-around and still no answer. Hmmm...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2003 2:01 pm 
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born to perform.

Joined: 02 Jan 2003
Posts: 1213
Location: Effingham, IL Mig-23 Flogger
Thanks for all of the info. I've been using Jean Michael Jarre music as background music. This is a foreign import, so I don;t thing the riaa is gonna holler at me. But I do put in my flyers/contract that the backgorund music is done my Jean Migheal Jarre and is published by the Dreyfus label. I don;t want anyone thinking I'm taking credit for the stuff. :-)

My Sister in law works at a theatre and she has produced several plays. When scripts are bought, they buy the rights to perform the play and play the music associated with that play. She has no idea what us independants are to do.

Again, thanks. There is a lot there to chew on.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2003 2:14 pm 
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born to perform.

Joined: 02 Jan 2003
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Location: Effingham, IL Mig-23 Flogger
OK, I just got finished reading BMI's liscencing FAQ and have determined that the venue is responsible for informing BMI of music that is performed.

My spin on this, and IANAL (I am not a lawyer), is that when I do my stage show in September, I will five them a list of the songs/publisher that are in the performance. It is then in their hands. WHen I do a magic show for a birthfay or small group. I consider that a private showing and it isn't a public performance. :-)

I checked through BMI's database and the music I use isn;t covered by them. I've read a lot about BMI before and they just take money from all teh radiostations and preformance halls and split the money up according to the top #40 bands or what ever. Even if the radio plays only Indie/local bands they still ahve to send a large sum of money to BMI so that they can get the royalties to where they belong. These indie/local bands, of course, never see a dime from BMI.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2003 4:18 pm 
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Penguin

Joined: 13 May 2003
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Location: Ogden, Utah
One point that keeps coming back to me is found in the music business handbook is that the music is not being "performed" but magic is. The radio station's goal is to play the music with the intent on people listening to it. Peolpe dont go to a magic show for the music, but rather the magic.

I have a couple of other places I want to contact. I will also post that. 8)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2003 6:17 pm 
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born to perform.

Joined: 02 Jan 2003
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Location: Effingham, IL Mig-23 Flogger
BBunnell wrote:
the music is not being "performed" but magic is.


Good distinction. :-) Thanks for doing all of this leg work. :-)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2003 11:19 pm 
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Penguin

Joined: 23 Jun 2003
Posts: 33
Location: KS
If you are not paying to use the copyrighted music in your performance then it is illegal. Do people do it anyway? YES Do they get caught? Not very often.

If you are performing for a private party, wedding reception, Birthday or School (Schools are Exempt) then it is not considered illegal or copyright infringement because these events are not open to the public they are private and by invitation only.

Now if you are just using a venue and are inviting the public or in the mall where the public is, then it is considered a public performance and therefore violating copyright laws. This is where "Licensing" comes into play. This is when the venue or you must contact ASCAP, BMI, or SESAC. These are the main organizations that take care of copyrighted music licensing (use of music in a public performance).

The phrase "performance" means being aired, whether as background music or as the main feature, from a CD/tape/record/minidisc/any playback device or live. Therefore if it is aired and people are able to hear it, then it is considered a performance.

I have in my contracts that the music licensing is covered by the venue where I am performing, and that it is their responsibility. This is my take on the situation I cover my butt.

James Lee


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2004 7:28 pm 
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born to perform.

Joined: 30 Jul 2003
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Location: MI
So would it be okay to use somebody song like ozzy osbourne in my stage show if they pay 5 dollar to watch my show?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2004 9:18 am 
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born to perform.

Joined: 14 Jul 2003
Posts: 572
Location: Chicago
I just buy stock music, which is music specifically created for buyout purchase by performers, advertising agencies, corporate event companies and the like. It's not very expensive, and if you're selective, you can weed through the cheesy stuff and find useful material.

The best part is that your performance can be staged anywhere -- or even televised -- without any licensing worries.

Best,
Neil


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2004 1:31 pm 
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Penguin

Joined: 30 Apr 2004
Posts: 2
I have a band and we have always entertained with both cove and original music, performing over 100 shows every year and it has always been the responsability of the venue to pay the PRO liscensing fees. This works the same for DJ's (whether they work for the venue or not) and juke boxes.

We've recently started planning a show with illusion involved (so we will be entertaining with music and illusion) and that is what has led me to this forum. It looks like a great resource and I am happy to be able to contribute right off the bat.

Peace

Mikel


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2004 5:57 pm 
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Penguin

Joined: 24 Mar 2004
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Location: Tennessee
I directly contacted the band I wished to use music from. They said it was ok, but then sent me to their recording contract company/publisher. The publisher gave me specific rights to use their music without paying royalties... in writing. I agreed to list the band name and album that I took music from.

They get free advertising, I get some nice music.

Just make sure to get it in writing either way. (Either the establishment gets the ok, or you do... but have it in writing just in case).

Magically,
Wook


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2004 8:16 pm 
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Penguin

Joined: 20 Jan 2003
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Neil, Where do you purchase your stock music?


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