That's cool that you've got your music figured out. I'm still searching for what I want as my music.

Decisions...Decisions...

i sugest cirque du soleil go to cdnow.com and sample so of the music, its slowly paced music. man i wish i lived n the west coast i would go to vegas and see all of the resident Cirque shows. they truly inspiring... i also really wanna see lane burtons show. have you seen it live?

Yeah I've seen it live. It was great. We live in California so we went there during the summer. I saw Lance as well as Penn and Teller. Both are fantastic shows. Lance's dove act is amazing.

I also own Lance's DVD "The Secrets of Magic." It has his 3 TV specials on them. 2 of the specials are a bunch of his stage act. The 3rd is burried alive. Both his stage acts have a dove act in them. One is his award winning act, the other is just a manipulation act with doves. Both amazing things to watch.

dam your really lucky. i havent seen any big tme magician like lance burton perform. only close to big time performer ive seen was Simon lovell.

That's until it is left in the dove pan too long on a summer day

lol thats mest up...

are u alowed to clip a doves wing

yes you can clip a doves wings but tey grow back quickly. if anones interested i got unmasks one and two. their great.

That's good to hear that you got the videos. I hope your dove is feeling better now. And I hope you learn your stuff well.

I must say one thing though. Doves are social creatures, they should live in pairs or multiples or whatever. They don't like to be alone.

Animals are not props. Like us, they are living, sentient creatures with thoughts and feelings/emotions. Aren't there enough ways to amaze people without resorting to animal abuse?

Abuse? Wow, you must not know much about animal magic. Any self-respecting magician treats their animals as pets and assistants (yes not props, no one said they were, they are assistants). The care that goes into the animals are tremendous.

Most of these "props" as you say, live longer then they would normally would. The only reason it would be abuse is if someone with your mentality on our "props" starts using them that way.

Magicians care for their pets (once again not props, sorry if I must keep saying this). If an animal doesn't want to do something, we do not force them to. Do you know how much trouble magicians go through to find the most comfortable way of treating them?

These animals (not props) are by no means "abused." Any magician that abuses their animals (not props) do not deserve to own an animal or call them selves magicians. Most of the animals are happy as well. Some have even been rescued from places that were going to kill them (like pounds). Some are quite happy to be where they are instead of dead. They are never forced.

Honestly I could go on forever. But I really don't feel like it. Nor do I have the time. You could argue that they don't want to be there. But if they don't want to do it, they wouldn't cooperate. Also once again the animals (not props) are treated with shear respect.

So please don't call our pets (not props)... props, nor say that they are abused. Because they are NOT abused... nor are they props.

But, it is your own opinion in what you want to view animal magic. By all means don't do it, dislike it if you want. I'm not trying to proove you wrong in your thought on not using them. But! Do NOT say that we abuse them, do NOT say that we don't care about them, and do NOT say that we see them as props. Because we don't, and to many of us, they're just like family.

Gosh, what can i say after that?

Oh, wait...i know. i can just paste your own intial comment:

"You bought a dove without doing any research?!?!?! ARGH..... Doves live for like 20 years... I hope you're ready for the commitment.... Next time do some research "

So, it's okay for YOU to criticize this guy, just not for ME to do so. Okay.

As for my 'not knowing much about animal magic'...

Well, gee. i may not know much about 'animal magic' per se, but as someone with a psychology degree, years of experience as an animal rescue and shelter volunteer, lifelong pet owner, and someone who has been involved in magic for about thirty years, i can say this much: i know firsthand of a LOT of dead doves, rabbits, and other animals who died in the name of entertainment at the hands of second- and third-rate "magicians."

Wow, great job about taking that out of context. Sure you can criticize him for buying a dove when he's not ready. Yet you were saying all magicians "abuse" their animals. I don't see how your comment can even compare. I was telling him I hope he's ready to be ready for a commitment of owning a pet “yadayada”... (Read initial post). You were saying that magicians abuse their animals. Your comment is completely irrelevant to my comment. And it makes no sense, you pulled what I said way out of context to make a point that doesn't work with what I said.



I did not say you do not know about animals. You seemed to know and care a lot about animals. What I said (once again taking it out of context, you're good at this) was that you must not know much about ANIMAL MAGIC, not magic, not animals, animal magic (combing the 2 things here, there’s a difference). By saying they're abused and that they’re our props you seemed somewhat close-minded or naive to the treatment these animals get (in most, not all cases).

As for the ones that have died. If they have died because of a pathetic excuse for a magician. Let that fall on their shoulders, and may they never have an animal again. If it just be 20 years of a long happy life, what can you expect, its time must come eventually. I'm sure there are people out there who are idiots. And you can’t just say that about magicians. What about the crappy pet owners out there? So you can’t really argue your entire case on the “idiot” magicians, because you may as well go after the world for owning animals.

What I was defending was the fact that you said animal magic is abuse. In a general statement, like we’re all abusing (To hurt or injure by maltreatment) them. By no means are every magician, and any other form of animal owner/entertainer doing that. By all means criticize those who do it wrong. I agree with you in that case. Those people SHOULD NOT even own pets.

Like I said before. My post is not to sway your judgment about animal magic. You are free to your opinion, and I to mine. I just wanted to point out that there are A LOT of magicians who use animals and love their pets (not props) dearly. And it is not right to make such an extremist and general statement about it. It’s not fair to those who take loving care of there animals as if they were family.

um have you ever seen the Lance burton specials on animal maig? i think not becuase if you have you wouldnt have made such an ignorant statement. and traylen what do you mean i wasnt ready to get a bird? must i prepare before i buy a dove? i know they live that long. i know i have to constantly train my dove and care for my dove. i never said my dove was like a prop. i may have have said it differently than i mewant. i meant like the main part of that area in magic. see what im saying?

as for my progress, i got tony clarks unmasks 1 and 2. they really helped out alot concerning care/feeding/training etc... the only problem m having is setting up a good area for practicing, and keeping my dove on a good feeding plan. school is really messing me up.

Heh, I figured my statement might confuse you. Only because me and you had been over this, and he was trying to take something that was said a long time ago to make a point, and the only way for it to make sense, was to pretend our whole conversation never happened. I esentially had to go "back in time" to defend myself. Sorry to bring you into it. Well, he brought you into it. But it really didn't have to do with you, it was more of a general thing.


School does that sometimes. Just keep at it. It's only 15 minutes a day to train them to fly back to you. I'm sure you can fit it in. As for training for an act, there is less of a rush for that. The main part is just training them to fly back.