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 Post subject: Un-Cut US Bills used for mis-made effects
PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 11:48 pm 
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This is in response to so many questions about these...

Here is the link with all the info.

http://www.moneyfactorystore.gov/uncutcurrency.aspx


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 Post subject: Re: Un-Cut US Bills used for mis-made effects
PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 12:04 am 
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born to perform.

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Location: Stuck in a Closet with Vanna White
Why would anyone want those?


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 Post subject: Re: Un-Cut US Bills used for mis-made effects
PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 12:11 am 
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FlapJackGeorge wrote:
Why would anyone want those?


You can make your own mis-made bills. Some people want bills with matching serial numbers, or preferred a ripped edge if they do a torn and res-torn bill effect. Also a lot of people give out the mis-made bill as a souvenir so its cheaper to make your own then to buy a new on each time.


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 Post subject: Re: Un-Cut US Bills used for mis-made effects
PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 2:28 am 
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Location: Every where you want to be
FlapJackGeorge wrote:
Why would anyone want those?


Code:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azwYOSLLtf0

And if you use another method of a switch (TT) it can be examined..and it looks/feels real because it is :)


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 Post subject: Re: Un-Cut US Bills used for mis-made effects
PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 9:53 am 
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Just print your own on a color laser printer, they look AMAZING. It's not illegal as long as one isn't using the copies for "fraudulent" purposes. No pun intended!
Even print on those mailing envelopes that don't tear for a fun gag. They are almost impossible to tear.


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 Post subject: Re: Un-Cut US Bills used for mis-made effects
PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 6:43 pm 
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Oh, for magic, lol, never would have thought that! Ha ha...


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 Post subject: Re: Un-Cut US Bills used for mis-made effects
PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 7:11 pm 
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:lol: YES, FlapJack :lol: :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Un-Cut US Bills used for mis-made effects
PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 2:10 pm 
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Posts: 540
You can buy $32 from the US government for only $55.

I think I've found a method of alleviating the deficit problem in the USA.


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 Post subject: Re: Un-Cut US Bills used for mis-made effects
PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 3:35 pm 
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EZrhythm wrote:
Just print your own on a color laser printer, they look AMAZING. It's not illegal as long as one isn't using the copies for "fraudulent" purposes. No pun intended!
Even print on those mailing envelopes that don't tear for a fun gag. They are almost impossible to tear.

WRONG IGOR!!!! The U.S. Treasury rules state that a copy of a bill must be either 2/3 (or smaller) or 1.5 (or larger the size of a regulation bill. I was doing a "holiday" party for the IRS (Yes I had to declare that one on my taxes) and did an effect where I burned a bill using flash paper bills. Got informed not to use those any more and asked wher I bought them at.


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 Post subject: Re: Un-Cut US Bills used for mis-made effects
PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 5:27 pm 
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Notwithstanding any provision of chapter 25 of Title 18 of the U.S. Code, authority is hereby given for the printing, publishing or importation, or the making or importation of the necessary plates or items for such printing or publication, of color illustrations of U.S. currency provided that:

1. The illustration must be of a size less than three-fourths or more than one and one-half, in linear dimension, of each part of any matter so illustrated;

2. The illustration must be one sided; and

3. All negatives, plates, digitized storage medium, graphic files, magnetic medium, optical storage devices, and any other thing used in the making of the illustration that contain an image of the illustration or any part thereof shall be destroyed and or deleted or erased after their final use in accordance with this section.



They have to be resized only if they're in color, and if they're a replica of U.S. currency. Flash bills that vaguely resemble a one dollar bill, but have distinguishing characteristics are okay.

-JT


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 Post subject: Re: Un-Cut US Bills used for mis-made effects
PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 6:04 pm 
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paddy wrote:
EZrhythm wrote:
Just print your own on a color laser printer, they look AMAZING. It's not illegal as long as one isn't using the copies for "fraudulent" purposes. No pun intended!
Even print on those mailing envelopes that don't tear for a fun gag. They are almost impossible to tear.

WRONG IGOR!!!! The U.S. Treasury rules state that a copy of a bill must be either 2/3 (or smaller) or 1.5 (or larger the size of a regulation bill. I was doing a "holiday" party for the IRS (Yes I had to declare that one on my taxes) and did an effect where I burned a bill using flash paper bills. Got informed not to use those any more and asked wher I bought them at.


I appreciate your reply but one may be skeptical to an agent's remarks. It's actually quite amazing how many are not aware of the true law and act on hearsay. IRS agents/employees have as much authority to tell what one may do with a FRN as a school crossing guard. One can also take notice of the fact that there is no law that says it is unlawful to make any type of copy of the notes. There just isn't one in the books. One would have to engage with the intent to defraud.

TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 25 > § 472
§ 472. Uttering counterfeit obligations or securities
Whoever, with intent to defraud, passes, utters, publishes, or sells, or attempts to pass, utter, publish, or sell, or with like intent brings into the United States or keeps in possession or conceals any falsely made, forged, counterfeited, or altered obligation or other security of the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/us ... 20_25.html


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 Post subject: Re: Un-Cut US Bills used for mis-made effects
PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 10:00 pm 
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EZrhythm wrote:
paddy wrote:
EZrhythm wrote:
Just print your own on a color laser printer, they look AMAZING. It's not illegal as long as one isn't using the copies for "fraudulent" purposes. No pun intended!
Even print on those mailing envelopes that don't tear for a fun gag. They are almost impossible to tear.

WRONG IGOR!!!! The U.S. Treasury rules state that a copy of a bill must be either 2/3 (or smaller) or 1.5 (or larger the size of a regulation bill. I was doing a "holiday" party for the IRS (Yes I had to declare that one on my taxes) and did an effect where I burned a bill using flash paper bills. Got informed not to use those any more and asked wher I bought them at.


I appreciate your reply but one may be skeptical to an agent's remarks. It's actually quite amazing how many are not aware of the true law and act on hearsay. IRS agents/employees have as much authority to tell what one may do with a FRN as a school crossing guard. One can also take notice of the fact that there is no law that says it is unlawful to make any type of copy of the notes. There just isn't one in the books. One would have to engage with the intent to defraud.

TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 25 > § 472
§ 472. Uttering counterfeit obligations or securities
Whoever, with intent to defraud, passes, utters, publishes, or sells, or attempts to pass, utter, publish, or sell, or with like intent brings into the United States or keeps in possession or conceals any falsely made, forged, counterfeited, or altered obligation or other security of the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/us ... 20_25.html

But another part of the code says:

"Whoever prints, photographs, or in any other manner makes or executes any engraving, photograph, print, or impression in the likeness of any such obligation or other security, or any part thereof, or sells any such engraving, photograph, print, or impression, except to the United States, or brings into the United States, any such engraving, photograph, print, or impression, except by direction of some proper officer of the United States—Is guilty of a class B felony."


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 Post subject: Re: Un-Cut US Bills used for mis-made effects
PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 8:45 am 
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Yes, that is stated at under;

CHAPTER 25—COUNTERFEITING AND FORGERY
...under section § 474. Plates, stones, or analog, digital, or electronic images for counterfeiting obligations or securities.

For one to engage in counterfeiting, the intent to defraud must be there.

BUT THEN... If one is going prepare an effect like "Fraud" or "Greed" it would be wise to be aware of this;

TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 17 > § 333
§ 333. Mutilation of national bank obligations
Whoever mutilates, cuts, defaces, disfigures, or perforates, or unites or cements together, or does any other thing to any bank bill, draft, note, or other evidence of debt issued by any national banking association, or Federal Reserve bank, or the Federal Reserve System, with intent to render such bank bill, draft, note, or other evidence of debt unfit to be reissued, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than six months, or both.

So in this sense it actually would be lawful to use a copy of the note so as not to mutilate an actual FRN.

One could call always call and ask the Secret Service if they investigate magicians make copies of a few FRN's or alter them for magic tricks.


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 Post subject: Re: Un-Cut US Bills used for mis-made effects
PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 9:14 am 
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EZrhythm wrote:
Yes, that is stated at under;

CHAPTER 25—COUNTERFEITING AND FORGERY
...under section § 474. Plates, stones, or analog, digital, or electronic images for counterfeiting obligations or securities.

For one to engage in counterfeiting, the intent to defraud must be there.

I'm not a lawyer, I don't know whether or not you are. As you know, this is the section I was quoting from:

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/us ... -000-.html

I really do not think that the word "counterfeiting" in a section heading means anything much, from a legal point of view. It is a section heading, not a part of the 'law' itself if you know what I mean. We all know that laws created for one purpose are often extended into new areas as they become relevant there.

Furthermore, the text in this next section makes plain that counterfeiting is still an activity that can occur, even when an intent to defraud is not there:

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/us ... -000-.html

To put it another way, if "intent to defraud" was automatically a part of counterfeiting, then there would be no need to qualify counterfeiting in that section with the "intent to defraud" add-on. And there is no qualifying "defraud" in the paragraph I quoted.

I don't think we've even mentioned yet:

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/us ... -000-.html

§ 475. Imitating obligations or securities; advertisements

"Whoever designs, engraves, prints, makes, or executes, or utters, issues, distributes, circulates, or uses any business or professional card, notice, placard, circular, handbill, or advertisement in the likeness or similitude of any obligation or security of the United States issued under or authorized by any Act of Congress ... shall be fined under this title."

---

Of course, you will do as you like and I doubt it will ever be an issue ... unless you perform for cranky IRS agents or police or like individuals.


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 Post subject: Re: Un-Cut US Bills used for mis-made effects
PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 10:54 am 
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Good points you make. True, a title of a law is not the law but it does assist in expressing the intent of the law. In this instance we can make reference to law dictionaries;

counterfeit
1) adj. describing a document, particularly money, which is forged or created to look real and intended to pass for real. 2) v. to criminally forge or print a false copy of money, bonds, or other valuable documents, intending to profit from the falsity. 3) n. shorthand for phoney money passed for real.
http://dictionary.law.com/Default.aspx?selected=375

Bouvier's;
TO COUNTERFEIT, criminal law. To make something false, in the semblance of that which is true; it always implies a fraudulent intent. Vide Vin. Ab. h. t. Forgery.

Black's Law Dictionary;
Counterfeit. In criminal law. To forge; or copy or imitate, without authority or right, and with a view to deceive or defraud, by passing the copy or thing forged for that which is original or genuine. Most commonly applied to the fraudulent and criminal imitation of money.
http://www.blacks.worldfreemansociety.o ... c-0284.jpg


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