As the thread I wish to comment on is locked, I have started a separate thread. Please check the thread in question, then read my message if you wish!

http://www.penguinmagic.com/discuss/vie ... p?t=103543

Ok, so you have read the thread. Well, here's my view. Some kid, thinks that's funny, Fairy nuff. Then a moderator, someone, if not a pro themselves, at least in a position where he/she should be behaving like one, gives the post a thumbs up and then locks the thread. Penguin, as far as I knew, is a shop for pro's, amatures and enthusiasts alike. Surely its staff and representatives should show some class. It seems not.

Whatever your opinion on any given situation. Flaming should be removed, NOT encouraged.

For God's sake people, grow up and stop behaving like 5 year olds in the playground. That goes for the mod's especially, at least one has shown he/she is not worthy of the position. Instead shows the company he represents up by acting like a kid. GROW UP. This is showbusiness, a professional game.

I am sure Steve Santini, and quite a few other people here will back me up when I say this. I am a professional performer, I have no arguments with Santini, nor with Steve Baker. I have chatted to Santini at length, and hope to do so again. I have even sent him and his family a Xmas gift, and been lucky enough to receive one from him. The same with Steve Baker. This has NOTHING to do with rivalries, of which I have no part. This is to do with a supposedly professional organisation allowing, and even encouraging, childlike behaviour and flaming.

If nothing else, the things I see here, the above being a perfect example, puts my off buying from this company. Behave like kids, and I expect your sales department to be the same. You lose business and credibility.

And people, on this forum, if you want REAL information, from people like me, who actually know a thing or two about this business. Why not try behaving like grown ups, and you might just get it.

Sorry if this was too long, and please understand that a lot of the above is NOT directed at everyone, nor should it be taken personally by all but a select few. Its a rant aimed at some people. They know who they are.

David Straitjacket
www.thefreakshow.co.uk

well said david, it has needed to be said, and commign from one like your self it will leave a mark, hopefully a good one. This flamming, bashing and unprofessionalism should not be allowed on any site. I dont stand for it at the site I am part of and mod.

Thanks for the support

Like I said, this has nothing to do with personal opinions & rivalries. Its about people showing some class, and professional organisations treating their PUBLIC forums with professionalism.

Its my first post here, and it will probably get me banned. Big loss to me eh! I think my posts, and my custom are worth more than that, but have no reason whatsoever to care if the mods here feel otherwise.

They need to scour through this forum, rip out every single bit of flaming, all the fake 'Steve Baker' posts, and everything else that makes this place look more like a kindergarten than a grown up forum! Then move on.

I bet they won't though.

David Straitjacket
www.thefreakshow.co.uk

I agree, i have said that before, but those posts were deleted becasue they were on other posts that were deleted all together.

I wasn't congratulating him...I was being sarcastic, otherwise I wouldn't lock down the thread.

You guys need to sort your differences elsewhere privately. We surely do not need this kind of crap here and we surely don't need to deal with your flamings and arguments.


P.S. My last paragraph shows that I agree with you.

Sarcastic, and how was anyone supposed to know that? It looked to me, and I am guessing to anyone else, that you thought it was funny, and didn't want anyone else responding. It would have been far better to post a message saying that crap like that message wouldn't be tolerated, and then locked the thread. Don't you think?

I would say the same if it was a fake Santini, this is not personal. Its about professionalism.

If it was a fake me, then we would be talking about a court case now. penguin magic are ultimately responsable for the content here. If it is slanderous, then they could end up in court. If it was me, then thats exactly where they WOULD end up.



I do not, in any way at all, understand what you have said above! What differences? Arguments? Flaming? When have I ever had anything to do with any of that here, once ever, at all? Check my ip, then check it against every post ever made here if you like. I have a static ip, have never posted here, and have nothing to do with any arguments or any differences. There is no flaming or arguments in this thread, we have totally agreed with each other! So what are you talking about? There is lots of that in other threads. But not here. Its kind of the point of my message. Did you miss that?

Again, there is none of that in this thread. So what are you talking about? Its like you are responding to an entirely different message.

My conclusion. You need to take control of a forum you are SUPPOSED to be moderating. You need to keep your personal opinions AWAY from that job, and you need to clean up the mess in this forum..

Oh, and with a reply like you have just given. You ought also to look up posterior and humorous in a medical book, and learn the difference.

EDIT. After I entered the above response, you edited your message and added this...



So I have no idea where we are now However the tone of my response is based entirely on the idea that the message you left is aimed at me. Which therefore means you feel I have something to do with flaming and arguements, and even seems to accuse me of taking part. If you did not mean it that way, then apologies in advance for the harshness.

I don't understand why you've turned against me because I locked the thread.

First, I haven't accused you of anything, nor doubted your experience and your knowledge in the field. I am not sure for how long you've been reading these forums, but not very long ago this forum (Escapology) was a complete mess full of flames and attacks...exactly describing it like you do in your topic title.

COUNTLESS of threads have been deleted from this forum because of flames and arguments, and that is where my comment about sorting out your differences were coming from. I presumed most people here would understand why I made that comment since they've seen the previous incidents happen here.

I also presumed that people would understand that I was being sarcastic since I did lock the thread...and people who did see the previous incidents would realize that. That user (author of the locked thread) created numerous usernames and caused chaos in the Escapology forum, and my comment 'congrats to you' was meant towards him, not anybody else.

If people need to sort out their differences they can do so elsewhere, and I am not forced to deal with all this when it can in fact be avoided, just because it is my job. Not many moderators here look after this place anymore, only a few of us are left, and I do my best. But you have to put yourself in my position and take a look around this forum. You'll find out that it is full of immature and arrogant teenagers causing nothing but trouble, and believe me, it does get to you sometimes which causes you to turn sarcastic. We are only human.

I don't post "posterior" or however you said that. That is my attitude naturally and I have nothing to prove to anybody at these boards. But I ask you nicely to stop throwing jabs and attacking me for doing what I could to avoid any further chaos in the Escapology forum. You are of course welcome to share your knowledge about the art in this forum, but please don't criticize or attack somebody else without any knowledge about him/her.

Jared

Firstly, please read the edit at the bottom of my post. It shows how your response was perceived, and why I responded in the way I did. Like I said in it, if I misread you then I apologise in advance.

It certainly came over like a direct accusation. Even if you did not mean it that way I cannot be blamed for seeing it like that. Its just how it was written.

Again, its the sorting out YOUR differences bit. I honestly don't have any. So the constant directing that comment to me is way off base.

The probably hundreds of lurkers that will drop in a place like this from time to time will know nothing about the history, and take your reply to that thread (which is just one, isolated example) and see it exactly how I did.

The posterior this was a cheap shot, and probably uncalled for. Humorous is the elbow, posterior is the a*se, you get the picture

Heh don't worry, many people see my posting style as posterior...dunno why...no really.

It's fine. You also edited your posts while I was typing my message, thus I saw it afterwards.

Now back on topic. Why don't you all behave a bit more mature...huh? (yeah, I'm a hypocrite, as always!)

I know, that Jared eh? Always causing trouble, he really should know that people will believe everything they read!!!!!!!!!

I understood straight away that he was being sarcastic, because I said the exact same thing to myself from reading the post. The original post was made in effect to be obviously made by a third party, not Steve himself, but someone trying to degrade him. A futile attempt because the fact that I do not frequent the forum mentioned means I don't give a hoot about the behaviour of someone on there and so the person making that post, anonymous they may be, but all they've done is convince me they are immature, not too bright, and frankly not worth my serious time and attention.

Anyone that posts here regularly and actually takes part in the "community" aspect will know that Jared was basically saying "OK, you're an idiot and there's no point anyone taking up space telling you this repeatedly." The issue of it being done professionally is frankly one I laugh at. Jared is not a professional mod as no such creature exists, he gives up his time free of charge to make this place more peaceful for you and me, as do all the mods and they have my sincere thanks for it. They are all human, and the day the start behaving like robots is the day I lose an amount of respect for them.

I apologise for the long post, but I figure if we are striving for an amount of maturity on here then anyone who has the patience to read all the way through fits the bill. Thank you for your time.

Hi

That thread was just one example, there are many, but I thought it was simpler to focus on that one, which illustrated the problem well.

Like I said, to me, the response did not seem in the least sarcastic. Taken at face value what did he say?

He said, "congrats to you, thumbs up" Most people, who perhaps did not have further insight into the person making that response would not view it as sarcastic. You did, but maybe you know more than the casual lurker?

What's so laughable about the idea of behaving like a pro here, or at any other forum? I never said that someone should behave like a professional mod? I said that a mod should behave like a professional. These are two very different things. Its a simple idea. A mod see's a post like that, deletes it, bans the poster. Moves on. How easy is that? To call that 'behaving like robots' is a ridiculous exaggeration. It is nothing more than imposing basic, and simple rules.

I am sure that many people here are in no way responsible for this. But my own lurking and reading through the threads has turned over huge amounts of childish bickering, flaming, back stabbing and general BS. All of which should be removed as it happens.

The magic cafe too comes in for constant fire. I have had HUGE problems myself with that place, including some major battles with mods that will go un-named. These people went the other way. far too over-protective, to the point of being zealots. So I do understand there is a balance needed. Yet I have not seen people bashing Penguin there, its beneath most of the posters, and when something does happen it tends to be pulled before 99% of people have a chance to see it.

This is directed at the people who waste their time bashing one forum, on another forum. Get a life for gods sake! Can you see how pointless that is. Bashing one forum on another. Kind of ironic in a strange, and ultimately useless way.

Anyway. I have said my piece, and I am out of here. I don't post on the cafe very much either, and I doubt I will be seen here again. What's the point?

Im not quite sure if i get what u mean so let me know if im wrong...

I hate how some "magicians" come on here and Bash, Argue, and put down fellow magicians as well...i dont like half the people on here bcuz all they do is say...your not ready..dont give ANY advice and just say NEGATIVE things

Yes it happens but they might be right. Im not agreeing with anyone but I see both sides.

yes they might be right..BUT instead of always just saying YOUR NOT READY! they could at least give advice, help to get them ready, and when u just ask people a question they think your not ready since u ask it even though they have no clue what you perform, or how well u perform AND entertain