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 Post subject: got a question
PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 3:07 am 
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One of my magic buddies is planning on doing an escape by the summer and he's been doing magic for a little under a year now but hasn't really practiced doing any escapes yet and this is what he's planning on doing by the summer.

he will have a mail bag with a gimmicked bar that slides through the rings to hold it shut with real locks a real chain a houdini death device with a real lock in the back to keep it around his neck with gimmicked cuffs attached to it some leg irons gimmicked and a cinder block those are the materials.

the set up is he get fastened into the death device and he goes into the bag head first the opening is closed at his feet with his feet staying on the out side of the bag then his leg irons are put on he can not bring his feet into the bag because of the mail bags fastener is denying his feet from entering

then a chain is also coming from the back of the death device connected to the lock and runs down his back outside the bag with the cinder block attached to it inside the bag and then the chain is connected to the leg irons then he's pushed into 8 feet of water.

Do you people think that's an escape that even Dixie Dooley wouldn't attempt almost ever or do you think that my friend here might actually survive doing this escape or end up like a lot of other people and being 6 feet under? I personally have tried convincing him to not attempt something like this but he says that he'll be fine and not die but I always get a feeling before something happens if it'll be alright or if it will be the end of that person.


Last edited by KingOfNynex2003 on Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: got a question
PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 3:22 am 
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KingOfNynex2003 wrote:
but hasn't reallt practiced doing any escapes yet


I wouldn't recommend it. If there won't be an instant breakout method in case something goes wrong, + you can't see if he's bumped his head or anything in the mail bag, 1 month practice won't do him a lot of good.


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 Post subject: Re: got a question
PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 3:24 am 
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sebishungry wrote:
KingOfNynex2003 wrote:
but hasn't reallt practiced doing any escapes yet


I wouldn't recommend it. If there won't be an instant breakout method in case something goes wrong, + you can't see if he's bumped his head or anything in the mail bag, 1 month practice won't do him a lot of good.


I just talked to him and he said he won't attempt doing this escape until early spring now but that's still only 6 months away do you think that would give him enough time to practice this escape?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 3:34 am 
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you need a fail safe way to escape in case ANYTHING goes wrong since there is the slight risk of drowning, he has to figure out a way of communicating that something is wrong and he is in danger. No matter how many years of practice you have, there is no guarantee that your props will always work as planned, and the smallest mistake can lead to danger.
I don't recommend it! but I know I love the adrenaline rush of something like this, you should ask a professional on what to do, I recommend MichalAngelo, pm him, he holds the world record for fastest UNDERWATER strait jacket escape, pm him and if he has the time he may be able to help you/your friend.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 3:37 am 
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sebishungry wrote:
you need a fail safe way to escape in case ANYTHING goes wrong since there is the slight risk of drowning, he has to figure out a way of communicating that something is wrong and he is in danger. No matter how many years of practice you have, there is no guarantee that your props will always work as planned, and the smallest mistake can lead to danger.
I don't recommend it! but I know I love the adrenaline rush of something like this, you should ask a professional on what to do, I recommend MichalAngelo, pm him, he holds the world record for fastest UNDERWATER strait jacket escape, pm him and if he has the time he may be able to help you/your friend.


Yeah I would never attempt to do this for 2 reasons

1. I make Peter Griffin from Family Guy look skinny

and

2. I would probably end up killing myself if I ever attempted it.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 3:40 am 
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also thanks for letting me know about that and he said to me he doesn't want anything other than the specified stuff on the first post but I'm trying to convince him to do it with a communicator but he doesn't want to.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 10:18 am 
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Tell him we're magicians. We just create the "illusion" of danger. He must take all precautions if he doesn't want to end up in the newspapers, not as a headliner but in the obituary column.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 5:02 pm 
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I was PMd about this subject. I've replied to the PM, but I thought about it and I think it's best to also post my reply here in this forum so that others who are considering doing something like this can consider the points I mentioned in my PM. Here is what I had to say about it....

Sebishungry is right in referring you to me. The escape you're describing to me is quite detailed. Even with gimmicked locks, etc, this escape can be a bit much. Of course, timing is critical when doing any escape under water. Take out all the risks involved, and you still have the factor of holding the breath, water temperature (this will play a factor in the length of time needed...I'll explain in a sec), safety precautions, such as hand signals, bubble blowing, or whatever.

The water temp is going to play a HUGE factor because it will determine how long the breath can be held and how well the muscles move. COLD water sends a shock to the brain, thus turning on a "survival mode" reaction. The heart wants to adjust it's rate according to the body's temperature. This also affects how fast the body uses oxygen.

Let me give you an example scenario...This escape is practiced (on land), and it times at 1 minute 15 seconds. Sure, a breath can be held for that long. Factor in the water temp, and the body's movement, which will move the lungs, urging them to breathe, and the time's now shortened....But the escape time hasn't. Now factor in that under water, the performer has no vision (or very limited). This means that the necessary movements for release must be done by feeling and touching. The difficulty in this increases becauses your brain must distinguish what you're touching. But the brain's busy trying to find a way to keep you alive. This overloads the brain and confuses it...which causes you to take longer in the escape. You see where I'm going with this...

This escape is just a BAD idea. I've been doing escapes for a number of years, including hanging from a burning rope dangling from a helicopter, buried alive, and even under water escapes. I don't recommend this one, as I wouldn't even attempt it. In 2006, when I did my under water straitjacket escape, it took me TWO attempts to do it successfully...I almost drowned on the first attempt. And I had a professional crew of 5 people and 6 trained lifeguards there with me. It's just too dangerous. That was my last underwater escape. It's just not worth it.

Tell your friend the best escapes are the ones that LOOK dangerous but are as just as safe as riding a bike. I don't recommend doing the escape you describe. Simply because there's too much room for error and miscalculations. The ONLY way I would consider recommending this escape is if he can get it done (on dry land) in 15 seconds. If he can completely pull it off in that time, then I'd try it, one step at a time, and time each phase separately. Then add all the times together and that will give you a decent figure for how long the breath hold will have to be.

Good luck with it. I'm keeping my fingers crossed (that it's not attempted)

Michal


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 3:44 am 
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Well it's been a few months now and he still wants to go through with it even though there's a huge possibility that he's going to die trying this idiotic stunt but whatever if he wants to possibly drown to death then that's upto him not even God could make him change his mind about it.

This just in he plans on warming up for that stunt by being tied to train track and try to escape before the train makes him into a pancake in my eyes I think this is worse than his first stunt because so much could go wrong with this.

What are everybodies views on this new stunt?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 10:21 am 
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Sounds like Darwin's theory at work.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 10:59 am 
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Ya, I think he's telling you lies.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 2:50 pm 
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I agree with Dave...Survival of the fittest at it's finest. He is the reason there are warnings at the beginning of televised events like this saying, "Do not try this at home." :roll:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 4:38 pm 
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What can possibly give him incentive to do this? It's just down right stupid, and even after you told him that PROFESSIONAL magicians advised him not to, he's still going to put his life at risk?

Were dealing with a real smart person here.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 5:17 pm 
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Maloney123 wrote:
What can possibly give him incentive to do this? It's just down right stupid, and even after you told him that PROFESSIONAL magicians advised him not to, he's still going to put his life at risk?

Were dealing with a real smart person here.


Yeah tell me about it nothing I say can make him change his mind about any of the stunts he wants to do I really hope he's joking about it because both those stunts are completely idiotic and WILL get him killed but he never listens to reason so I guess I'll probably be without a friend after any of these stunts.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 5:51 pm 
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Write up a disclaimer that you advised him of the risks involved and you claim no responsibility for his death if he attempts this, and have him sign it. See if that wakes him up.


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