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Free Magic Shows
Poll ended at Sun Jan 28, 2007 1:21 pm
Yes 59%  59%  [ 20 ]
No 41%  41%  [ 14 ]
Total votes : 34
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 1:31 pm 
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Penguin

Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Posts: 338
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Well, a year or so ago, some dentists at a local mall put on a free one day counsel/brief checkup for some special 'dental hygene day' they started up. They are a huge dental office with 6 dentists, 6 assistants, and one specialist.

Doctors have done some similar stuff, especially just before the flu season.

Doctors (and dentists) will also sometimes look at a child for free if the parent(s) bring the child with them for their (the parents check-up) check-up.

The idea's behind this are easy to understand. The dentists and doctors were able to meet a large number of the public in such a positive way, they brought in many new clients.

The dentist and doctor, by examining the child for free, satisfied his regular customer (patients are customers) and this one customer will probably not hesitate to recommend this doctor to family and friends for such a great experience.

Magicians free shows would be the same, it can advertise you, promote you, and if your show is really a knock out (some free shows are), people won't hesitate to hire you. I've also, as a result of performing a few free shows, been offered some paid shows like birthday parties, etc.... And most of the time, most people won't even know you are doing a free show. You can ask the person in charge to not mention that you're performing for free due to business reasons or whatever. If it's a charity, just say it's a charity you really believe in.

That said, I agree with the above poster, Paddy, in that it does cost me alot to continue to update my show and even start new ones, so it's nice to be paid to perform to earn the money back and then some. And if you're a full time magician, you need the money even more.

I would say that, in conclusion, it's OK to do a few free shows for something you believe in (like the hospital or church as a few posters do here), especially if it can really lead to a great way for you to advertise yourself (again, the general public usually won't know you're performing for free), and especially if you are new, it's a great way to advertise yourself and get some practice before a live audience. But be careful, because you don't want to be known as the magician who does free shows. You may, then, find it very hard to start charging when you start charging.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 5:29 pm 
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One thing I am known for is that I am the highest priced magician in the area. I tell people this up front and when they say "oh magi X is only $75" I openly tell them "you can not buy a Rolls Royce for the price of a used VW beetle. My minimum fee for a kid's b'day party is US$200. BTW I also say that if the kids and/or parents are not satisfied, the show is free. In 9 years I have never had anyone take me up on that guarantee. I also close over 80% of the calls I get.

How can I charge one person $200 to see the same show that the kids can see for free someplace. Doesn't seem right either to me or to my customer.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2006 12:00 pm 
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I only do free shows for certain events...such as fun raisers for good causes, children's hospitals, and promotional events like televised performances and small 8-10 minute performances for pageant intermissions and such. Even though some of these are free...I make sure that the person in charge HEAVILY advertises me as part of the deal.

Free shows are only good if in your best interest...it depends on where you stand in morals, ethics, and such.

Now that being said, let me say something different about beginners doing free shows...

Sometimes it is necessary for beginners to do a few free shows to get their name out and circulating a bit. It is also a great way for nebies to polish their routine. You can only polish so much at home...it takes a real audience to get a show or routine exactly the way it needs to be. After you have volunteered some, start charging as you recieve calls.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2007 11:55 pm 
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Location: Vancouver, Canada
paddy wrote:

You don't find any other profession, doctor, lawyer, executive, whatever, that does free work to get more work. If we do it, we are being idiots.

Paddy




thats werre ur wrong dont u ever wtch those africa infomercials theres doctors, teachers and nice people that donate their time to help the starving ppl out. same with hurricane katrina cops and people and w/e u get my point


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 8:28 am 
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pmo98 wrote:
paddy wrote:
You don't find any other profession, doctor, lawyer, executive, whatever, that does free work to get more work. If we do it, we are being idiots. Paddy

thats werre ur wrong dont u ever wtch those africa infomercials theres doctors, teachers and nice people that donate their time to help the starving ppl out. same with hurricane katrina cops and people and w/e u get my point


I will repeat what I said for the benefit of the reading impaired. i.e. "You don't find any other profession, doctor, lawyer, executive, whatever, that does free work to get more work. If we do it, we are being idiots."

If you want to donate your time to a home for reckless drivers or whatever, fine. However, those who do a "free show" to get them paid work are being idiots. No other profession does that. They may do free care for altruistic reasons, but not to advertise.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 1:59 pm 
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Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
KyletheGreat wrote:
I only do free shows for certain events...such as fun raisers for good causes, children's hospitals, and promotional events like televised performances and small 8-10 minute performances for pageant intermissions and such. Even though some of these are free...I make sure that the person in charge HEAVILY advertises me as part of the deal.

Free shows are only good if in your best interest...it depends on where you stand in morals, ethics, and such.

Now that being said, let me say something different about beginners doing free shows...

Sometimes it is necessary for beginners to do a few free shows to get their name out and circulating a bit. It is also a great way for nebies to polish their routine. You can only polish so much at home...it takes a real audience to get a show or routine exactly the way it needs to be. After you have volunteered some, start charging as you recieve calls.
Finally, something we agree on, Kyle. :D

Although I've pretty much said everything you did with my first post (pro section) and on a post above on this page, one thing I should have mentioned clearer was where I said that people don't have to know that it is a free show, I should have also furthered that with what you said, make sure the person in charge heavily advertises your show. Great point!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 2:07 am 
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Where in the world do people pay $200 for a prideful, arogant, sarcastic magician that is insulting to everyone, and has no sense of kind heartedness?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 2:04 pm 
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Penguin

Joined: 22 Mar 2005
Posts: 292
Location: CT
Apparently Kentucky lol.
Tho Paddy is a bit harsh sometimes. I often find my self agreeing with him on most of his posts. When I do disagree I make sure to represent my self with facts or clearly state its opinion only.
I'm not trying to defend only him here. It seems that allot of new magicians, or should I say aspiring magicians, seem to get really offended when someone says "read a book" or "that's been discussed before".
Paddy is a voice of reason, as loud and mean as it might be. Along with Sluggo, Kyle and some others (don't get mad if I forgot you) you can learn a great deal from chatting with them or reading their answers to other posts.
Don't get mad when people don't want to tell you "their" routines. Or how to start your show. Seriously, read some books. At least watch some DVD's from children performers for gosh sakes. Kaye, Ginn, Harlan and many others have done this and are successful at it not because they bought PBJ or Stratosphere. But because they know how to entertain children. As for any form of magic its the magician that makes the effects not the other way around. Spend some time developing your act and learning what type of performer you are then try and exercise your creative muscles and put together your own routine with marketed effects or even better your own effects.
So don't get mad at Paddy because he tells it to you straight (tho sometimes a bit to mean but that’s my opinion) he's just gotten beaten down by the 178'th post titled "Want to do Kids Show I'm 13 and I've bought the Raven and STS".

And for the record Paddy’s prices are very, very close to my own. His show is not over priced at all.

Cheers
Adam


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 3:28 pm 
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Posts: 108
Adam,

First, I am not a 13 year old child. I have spent way more on books and videos than I have on props or effects. I agree that learning to entertain children is WAY more important than buying "tricks". And, I've never asked anyone to give me a free routine. I have spent much time developing my own based on what I have read, seen, and experienced. (Props to Sluggo here, for sharing some great warm up ideas)

And, as far as pay, I get almost that much for my shows, and I'm still very new. I know others who get much more. I DO NOT think that a $200 price tag is too much for good entertainment. I just can't imagine anyone paying that much for a prideful, arogant, sarcastic, insulting magician.

Here, I'll show you what I am talking about. The following are all quotes from one particular person's posts, on this thread alone. check out his posts on other threads, and you will see much more of the same. :

"A free show is worth exactly what it cost, nothing. People know that the only reason for an entertainer to do a free show is because it is so bad that he has to give it away. " = JUDGEMENTAL AND HATEFUL

"I will not do a freebie for any hospital ..." = UNCARING

"You don't find any other profession, doctor, lawyer, executive, whatever, that does free work to get more work. If we do it, we are being idiots. " = INCORRECT AND INSULTING

"NO, if you are a quality performer you protect your income. Let the amateurs play at being magicians, but us real ones need to be paid. " = AROGANT AND INSULTING

"One thing I am known for is that I am the highest priced magician in the area. I tell people this up front and when they say "oh magi X is only $75" I openly tell them "you can not buy a Rolls Royce for the price of a used VW beetle." = COMPLETELY AROGANT AND PRIDEFUL

"I will repeat what I said for the benefit of the reading impaired...." = SARCASTIC

"If you want to donate your time to a home for reckless drivers or whatever, fine." = MORE SARCASM

"those who do a "free show" to get them paid work are being idiots." = INSULTING AND JUDGEMENTAL

As I said, this is all from this one thread. But this person is just as hateful in almost every post that I've seen him make here. Why would anyone want such a person "entertaining" their child?

Mike


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 3:58 pm 
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Joined: 22 Mar 2005
Posts: 292
Location: CT
Mike,
I agree that his posts are sometimes sarcastic and harsh.

I can only speak personally. Some of these posts anger me only because some people (not speaking about you directly) post such crazy things as, I want to start a kids show how do I do it. You know the kind of posts.
This is a performing art. It takes years and alot of passion to get it to where your show sohuld be paid to be seen.
I just feel hurt that some people think because you know how a effect works that being a true magician is easy.

I have only meet one 13 year old that I would ever feel confident enough that if I could not make a show and need someone to stand in for me I would call him. That is very rare. Not saying its impossible but most 13 year olds are cocky kids who think they know what it takes to perform and havent the slightest clue.

Cheers,
Adam


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 9:39 pm 
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chosengeneration wrote:
...Here, I'll show you what I am talking about. The following are all quotes from one particular person's posts, on this thread alone. check out his posts on other threads, and you will see much more of the same. :

"A free show is worth exactly what it cost, nothing. People know that the only reason for an entertainer to do a free show is because it is so bad that he has to give it away. " = JUDGEMENTAL AND HATEFUL

"I will not do a freebie for any hospital ..." = UNCARING

"You don't find any other profession, doctor, lawyer, executive, whatever, that does free work to get more work. If we do it, we are being idiots. " = INCORRECT AND INSULTING

"NO, if you are a quality performer you protect your income. Let the amateurs play at being magicians, but us real ones need to be paid. " = AROGANT AND INSULTING

"One thing I am known for is that I am the highest priced magician in the area. I tell people this up front and when they say "oh magi X is only $75" I openly tell them "you can not buy a Rolls Royce for the price of a used VW beetle." = COMPLETELY AROGANT AND PRIDEFUL

"I will repeat what I said for the benefit of the reading impaired...." = SARCASTIC

"If you want to donate your time to a home for reckless drivers or whatever, fine." = MORE SARCASM

"those who do a "free show" to get them paid work are being idiots." = INSULTING AND JUDGEMENTAL...Mike


Yes, I have said every one of those things. Yes I am proud of every one of those statements. However, When I am performing, the audience is to be totally respected by me. On this forum the people I am talking to claim to be, or want to be, PROFESSIONAL ENTERTAINERS. As such they should understand the concepts of our work. we are in show business and the last word of that phrase is very important. BUSINESS, we must remember that it is a business that delivers one of the most important "products" in the world. A happy time for everyone watching us. As such we need to be recompensed. I stated earlier that other professions do not give their abilities away as advertising, why should we.

Also one of your complaints about me is "AROGANT AND INSULTING." Why? I stated the truth. If I am not the best performer I can be, I'll quit. If what you do is not worth your giving 150% of yourself to be the best then you are not worth anything. Call that pride if you want, but if you are not proud of what you do, you should not do it.

I have found in my years on this forum that if you are politically correct and tell someone "well you might want to ..." They don't listen. However if you hit someone with a shovel, they may pay attention. If they do pay attention they will grow to be a better performer. I have never said that my way is teh only way. it is a way that works and when you listen to me and others and then fit our advice into your personality then you succeed.

That is all I care about, that our art lives on and is loved by all, not destroyed by those who play with gimmicks.


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 Post subject: '
PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 10:16 pm 
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born to perform.

Joined: 04 Aug 2003
Posts: 2171
Location: Loveland,Ohio (Cincy)
I think the thing that bothers those of us that has put in many hours of reading, studying, watching DVD's or attending conventions are the thirteen year old who wants to jump into this and make the quick buck. They don't want to take the time that is needed they just want some quick answers to get out there and ruin someone's party.
When there is an occassional thirteen year old asking the right questions to do it the right way Paddy and the others bends over backwards to help.
It's just that after sixty, eighty or ninety posts from people that gets a magic starter kit and then professes to be a working magicican who now wants to know some routine ideas on how to do a BD party.
When you advise them to get some learning material they don't want to hear that, they want quick answers.
You know this person will never do what is necessary to do a show right.
It aggravates you that this person will probably ruin a few parties until his name is crap and he'll be out of the biz before long.
You can tell the good ones from the bad ones by a few of their posts so it's not a bad idea to weed them out with some tough 'love.'


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 11:42 pm 
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Paddy,

I, too, strive to be the best performer that "I can be". But I don't claim to be a Rolls and call others a used vw. That is where the arrogance is.

If you are a Rolls, why haven't I heard of you before I joined this forumn? Mr. Rolls would be world famous, don't you think? But, instead, you hang around this forumn insulting everyone except the "holy huddle" of 3 or 4 of you. I am not suggesting that you are not a full time magician. Just the attitude is CRAZY.

You stated

"we must remember that it is a business that delivers one of the most important "products" in the world. A happy time for everyone watching us. "

I totally agree! my question is this:

HOW DO YOU BRING A HAPPY TIME TO ANYONE WITH YOUR SOUR, HATEFUL ATTITUDE?

I understand the frustration that some of you regulars here get when someone comes along asking for the easy way out. BUT, that is not the case with THIS thread. Why are you ALWAYS so hateful?

Mike


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 12:55 pm 
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Joined: 16 Aug 2006
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Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
chosengeneration wrote:
Paddy,

I, too, strive to be the best performer that "I can be". But I don't claim to be a Rolls and call others a used vw. That is where the arrogance is.

If you are a Rolls, why haven't I heard of you before I joined this forumn? Mr. Rolls would be world famous, don't you think? But, instead, you hang around this forumn insulting everyone except the "holy huddle" of 3 or 4 of you. I am not suggesting that you are not a full time magician. Just the attitude is CRAZY.

You stated

"we must remember that it is a business that delivers one of the most important "products" in the world. A happy time for everyone watching us. "

I totally agree! my question is this:

HOW DO YOU BRING A HAPPY TIME TO ANYONE WITH YOUR SOUR, HATEFUL ATTITUDE?

I understand the frustration that some of you regulars here get when someone comes along asking for the easy way out. BUT, that is not the case with THIS thread. Why are you ALWAYS so hateful?

Mike
Chosen,

I pretty much agree with what you said here, I've been through all this with him and a couple of others here as well. They say that their way isn't the only way but when you say something different than their way, you get chewed out by them. Something they call 'tough love.'

I always try to be gentle in what I say with somebody because I believe in this:

A GENTLE WORD TURNS AWAY WRATH.

If you treat somebody hard, there's a high chance they won't remember any 'good advice' you gave them and all they want is to chew back at you. But if you talk nicely to somebody letting them know where they are wrong (plus, where they are correct), they have nothing to redirect themselves from your post and they will have a greater chance at reading what you said and taking it with them. I believe in 'gentle love.'

I'm worried that many new and young people get such a negative response from some of these guys that they may leave magic altogether even though they really are devoted. Remember, when you get told something that you're not expecting, sometimes it takes awhile for it to sink in. Some of these guys here just don't want to wait that time.

I can easily say that I'm not a full time magician, I don't have the years that some have here, but I have still been around long enough, done enough shows to have a say here, to offer my advice. I have witnessed things that work for myself and others that even some of the top professionals teach opposite of.

Some seasoned people here are so much into their full time profession that they forget many of the beginning traits that are common in magic, such as free shows (especially for beginners, but not limited too them, seasoned pros performing for certain charities or hospitals are great examples). Many examples that were given such as doctors not giving any free advice was fully wrong. It's not often it happens, but it does. Even lawyers are known to donate their time on occasion.

If I was to hire a magician for a kid show from this kid show forum, I would go with somebody who is positive and gentle because it's kids they will be performing for. The magician I would hire would be space_ghost15 as he is the most positive person here and if you check his web site, the most professional (from my viewpoint anyway). He does back up some of these harsher people on a usual basis, but still, he attempts a better style that doesn't make you feel bad. And even though I may disagree with him on a few points (not many, though), I always pay attention to what he says. He knows his stuff. As many others do, I'm sure yourself included, chosen, I just don't know you as much yet. So far, you seem like a great guy. Keep it up!


Last edited by sneak on Thu Jan 04, 2007 1:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 1:27 pm 
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Joined: 02 Feb 2006
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paddy wrote:

I have found in my years on this forum that if you are politically correct and tell someone "well you might want to ..." They don't listen. However if you hit someone with a shovel, they may pay attention.


Well,

If I ever find myself in a Jewish community in Kentucky, I sure hope I have a shovel with me. I'd love to test your theory on you!!!

Mike


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