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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 12:25 am 
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born to perform.

Joined: 22 Nov 2002
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Location: United States
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The only reason I haven't really gotten bigger yet in my area is that I'm still working on finishing off the completion of a show that is getting expensive, but this is my choice



What is your shows line up?


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 12:15 pm 
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Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
DINOTECH wrote:
Quote:
The only reason I haven't really gotten bigger yet in my area is that I'm still working on finishing off the completion of a show that is getting expensive, but this is my choice



What is your shows line up?
Well, it's not quite as expensive as yours, not yet anyway, but I'm working on getting some stuff.

My current show consists mostly of the usual standards like a change bag routine, coloring book, die box, and a couple of lesser known/seen effects. Mind you, there's nothing wrong with this stuff (and some I'll keep in my show) plus a proper presentation can do alot with this stuff, but I know there's alot more I can do to be the best I can be.

I've actually considered LEAN for awhile now and will probably be purchasing that soon. It actually works for both kids and adults so it's a very valuable trick.

I'm also considering an electronic drawing board plus an expensive version of the flying scarf. Also, a growing head illusion (a kids head seems to grow more than twice it's size inside a box).

Currently, I am working on a new coloring book routine that is being finished off at over $300.00 if I go ahead with everything despite the coloring book being only $8.00. It'll bring the coloring book to a much higher and visual level.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 8:08 pm 
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I have always like the coloring book but thought someone like Wolf Magic could come up with a better version. Did you create your own version of coloring book? OR are you saying you bought one for $300?


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 9:46 pm 
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I am reading about all these props that are very expensive. When I commented earlier Dinotech stated
Quote:
Am I over the top? YES... I always give my clients more than they were expecting.


OK I somewhat see the reasoning behind his (I believe) flawed logic. I bought Chris Capehart's DVD "Kiddin' Around" and have gone over that. Chris is a very well respected children's entertainer. His kid's show even has A CARD TRICK in it that all the kids understand and just LOVE. He even states in his talk on the DVD that his goal is to entertain with simple magic that will astound the kids and have them screaming with excitement and joy.

I agree with him. I'll keep doing my shows with complicated effects like rope and Chinese rings. And yes, I do get repeat business, plus the parents that are at the party not only ask for a card but actually call and book parties. In fact For the last year I have not done a party that didn't get a booking from one of the other parents. Yes I do turn down some parties because I can not be in two houses at the same time. So I must also be giving my clients more than they expect. Hey if I am overbooked I am very happy. Hope you guys are overbooked too.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 11:40 am 
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DINOTECH wrote:
I have always like the coloring book but thought someone like Wolf Magic could come up with a better version. Did you create your own version of coloring book? OR are you saying you bought one for $300?
No, I didn't buy a coloring book for $300.00. Actually, I mentioned in my post that the coloring book itself is only $8.00. What's bringing it to $300.00 is an addition of a couple of things that will go with each phase of the coloring book.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 3:13 pm 
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Location: Ituna, Saskatchewan, Canada
paddy wrote:
It's not the magic tricks, it"s the performance of the magic effects.



Exactly...which makes DINOTECH's "production costs" of about $3400 and your "production costs" of about $100 equally irrelevant to the ultimate goal of entertaining the kids with a fun magic show.

Whether a magician chooses to use expensive or inexpensive props/tricks is entirely his/her own perogative.

Do we now have to add "Children's magic shows should have a production cost of under $100" to the list of silly magicians' "rules" like "Card tricks don't work for kids" and "You're not a real magician until you perform the cups and balls"?

Geez... as long as the shows do their job, I don't see a reason for complaining that DINOTECH's props are expensive or that paddy's are cheap.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 4:13 pm 
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get rid of alot of that and learn to juggle and do balloon sculptures


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 4:41 pm 
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Quote:

Do we now have to add "Children's magic shows should have a production cost of under $100" to the list of silly magicians' "rules" like "Card tricks don't work for kids" and "You're not a real magician until you perform the cups and balls"?



Reminds me of an article I recently read, I will have to search for it again, about how some magicians look down on other magicians for using classic props like the Crystal Cylinder or Square/Circle. The article was about how some close-up experts look down on other types of magicians and their use of props because of their simplicity of use, forgetting that the true element of magic is the entertainment value. It was a really good article.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 9:58 pm 
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OK, I will admit that maybe I was being abtuse about the point I was making re: the production cost. What I was trying to point out was that ENTERTAINMENT is our business. Not appearing to be the richest magician around that has all these expensive props. What I was trying to bring up is what I have been saying for 5 years next month,

Nobody cares about the props, they have to look nice and not all mangled up, but what the children, and the parents will remember is THE MAGICIAN. Were you funny, did the kids like you, did the kids laugh and enjoy the show. Did you involve the birthday child, how did you handle the "problem" child of the party. That's entertainment.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 11:38 pm 
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Yeah... I figured there was something else going on, since I almost always agree completely with what you have to say. Those were odd comments to see from someone who had once wrote

paddy wrote:
You never will be a professional if you don't have the best props. ... Don't be afraid to spend money to increase your income.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 12:44 am 
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Location: Pittsburgh, PA
This thread definitely came to an awesome close. There's a ton of great advice just in these last few posts alone!

-JT


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 6:47 am 
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TheCaffeinator wrote:
Yeah... I figured there was something else going on, since I almost always agree completely with what you have to say. Those were odd comments to see from someone who had once wrote

paddy wrote:
You never will be a professional if you don't have the best props. ... Don't be afraid to spend money to increase your income.


Yep, I did say that. I know it seems like a contradiction, but there is a difference between having professional props to perform our act with, and going out to spend several thousands of dollars for a KID'S SHOW. Our props have to look good, but our show can not be all about the props.

Also I really wonder when I hear someone tell me about all his really over the top tricks that are nothing more than expensive gimmicks. Did they REALLY spend six thousand dollars for a 30 minute show that they can only do one show a day because the set up takes so much time, or is that just a wish list of what they think would make a good show.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 10:36 am 
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paddy wrote:
Our props have to look good, but our show can not be all about the props.


Hear, hear!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 11:38 am 
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is that just a wish list of what they think would make a good show.



Hey Paddy, call Chance Wolf at Wolf Magic and ask him lf I have bought all those tricks from them... Why does this shock you? I know hundreds of people who have bought THOUSANDS of dollars of Chances magic props. In fact his stuff is ALWAYS "out of stock" this is NOT because no one is buying his props. Its because its time tested and they are very good!

It's because they want the best for there show.

I believe 5 percent of all you make should go back into your show to re invest into your show... That means every Birthday party I make $175 I reinvest $8.75 into new items for my shows. If I make 70k in magic this year I will be spending $3500 on magic, props, music etc... Does this mean I use all of it? NO.. But I owe it to my clients and my profession to know all I can about my job and ATTEMPT to make my show better. Just like a doctor who goes to added classes or buys new items to determine if its better for his clients. Now this number of 5 percent may change someday but thats what I have plugged in on my computer program.

I think alot of people hold on to the belief that they will use the same piece of rope for the next 20 years and do the same show like a broken record. I do not...

There are also those who do shows wearings jeans and put on a tie and consider that there character or what have you...

I am not one of them...

You people starting out may start at 10 percent or even higher till you get where you want to be but I think you should get yourself to around 5 percent.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 11:47 am 
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I do reinvest a minimum of 10% I am constantly buying DVDs and books learning how to be better than I am today. I bought Chris Capehart's new DVD called "Kidden Around" for $50, received it and have watched it at least 7 times already learning new things. He even does a CARD TRICK in a kids show with a regular deck of cards and has eveybody in that room mesmerized by it.

That's where I invest, in showmanship because that's where the ROI is greatest. ROI is accounting talk for Return On Investment, every dollar you invest in a show should make you a minimum of $10 back over a period of one year.


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