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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 12:09 pm 
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DavidTheCryptic wrote:
And I do understand that I am not a professional and i under stand that most people are. I would just like to someday be a professional also. That is why i ask your guys advice

Actually very few people here are professionals.

And you have a long way to go before you will become professional, a long way.


Everyone has to start somewhere right?
I mean how old were you when you first started magic? and what was your first trick?

me. I was 9 years old and i seen some pen and teller reveal some kinda stage trick.
then i wanted to do a magic trick. so i watched that criss angel episode were h revealed that toothpick on or something. And that was my first trick

-edit
also i have the crash course seried and the real secrets of magic series witch i watch as much as a can after i do homework and such.
do you have any good training dvds i should get?


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 2:01 pm 
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Location: Milford OH
Mikeoo92 scribbled
Quote:
Everyone has to start somewhere right?
I mean how old were you when you first started magic? and what was your first trick?


You're right, so you should start doing kiddie shows. The sooner you start the sooner you will find out that we on the forums are really gentle compared to a bunch of kids. One little flash and you have just handed them your butt to carve up. Bad presentation like that video and you lose their attention span. That's when the fun really begins. You lose one kid's attention, he starts to screw around, the kids next to him join in and within 3 to 5 minutes you've lost them all. Once you lost them you're dead, the show is over even before the first trick.

So go ahead and start, you'll burn a few parties but you'll be finished very quickly.

See I didn't say anything about you being practically illiterate or too lazy to use spell check.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 2:09 pm 
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ok well any tips on how to keep there attention?
i was thinking about trying to have the kids invovled in the magic (not just watching but doing stuff)
as much as thay can.

i got the
Wand to Diploma
for if i have a helper or what ever.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 2:52 pm 
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Joined: 22 Mar 2004
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Location: Texas
mikeoo92 wrote:
DavidTheCryptic wrote:
And I do understand that I am not a professional and i under stand that most people are. I would just like to someday be a professional also. That is why i ask your guys advice

Actually very few people here are professionals.

And you have a long way to go before you will become professional, a long way.


Everyone has to start somewhere right?
I mean how old were you when you first started magic? and what was your first trick?

me. I was 9 years old and i seen some pen and teller reveal some kinda stage trick.
then i wanted to do a magic trick. so i watched that criss angel episode were h revealed that toothpick on or something. And that was my first trick
-edit
also i have the crash course seried and the real secrets of magic series witch i watch as much as a can after i do homework and such.
do you have any good training dvds i should get?



Your first trick was one you learned from Criss Angle on his TV show.
Which has only been on air for 3 years, first aired in 2005. Thats only 3 years ago. He didnt start revealing tricks till the second and third.

But you have been doing magic for 4 years.

Quote:
for real I have been doing magic for about 4 years but I am just now getting more into it.


So hows that work. Mixing up your stories.... cant keep them straight.

And no, those dvds are not for kids shows- heck I would recommend those period. Those sound like E's dvds.


I started before the internet was around to the mass public, I didnt even have computer when I started. I had to literally walk to my local shop or hitch a ride with my parents. A long time ago... when magic wasnt just full of hack kids.
And I sure as edited didnt start performing for pay, until I was fully ready. I had a full routine, I had crowd control, and presentation, and more.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 2:55 pm 
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born to perform.

Joined: 20 Jan 2008
Posts: 615
If you **** up an adult party, its not the end of the world. Do it at a kids party, and you have ruined their big day, and no other parent will book you for miles around.

Same will happen at an adults party, but it wont affect them as much, do free shows for friends until you have your presentations down, and not kids parties, they are harder than anything else.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 3:32 pm 
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Posts: 302
DavidTheCryptic wrote:
mikeoo92 wrote:
DavidTheCryptic wrote:
And I do understand that I am not a professional and i under stand that most people are. I would just like to someday be a professional also. That is why i ask your guys advice

Actually very few people here are professionals.

And you have a long way to go before you will become professional, a long way.


Everyone has to start somewhere right?
I mean how old were you when you first started magic? and what was your first trick?

me. I was 9 years old and i seen some pen and teller reveal some kinda stage trick.
then i wanted to do a magic trick. so i watched that criss angel episode were h revealed that toothpick on or something. And that was my first trick
-edit
also i have the crash course seried and the real secrets of magic series witch i watch as much as a can after i do homework and such.
do you have any good training dvds i should get?



Your first trick was one you learned from Criss Angle on his TV show.
Which has only been on air for 3 years, first aired in 2005. Thats only 3 years ago. He didnt start revealing tricks till the second and third.

But you have been doing magic for 4 years.

Quote:
for real I have been doing magic for about 4 years but I am just now getting more into it.


So hows that work. Mixing up your stories.... cant keep them straight.

And no, those dvds are not for kids shows- heck I would recommend those period. Those sound like E's dvds.


I started before the internet was around to the mass public, I didnt even have computer when I started. I had to literally walk to my local shop or hitch a ride with my parents. A long time ago... when magic wasnt just full of hack kids.
And I sure as edited didnt start performing for pay, until I was fully ready. I had a full routine, I had crowd control, and presentation, and more.


No I have been actually doing magic for longer than 4 years just really into it for about 4 years.
And at least thats the first trick I can remember.
Why would I lie about that?
honestly I am not lieing about anything here...
and
Ukcop
I do not plan on messing anything up. i have practiced and practiced, and am still practicing for this.
I am not going to mess up.

why cant you people support people? instead you just put them down?


and also i do not have a local magic shop. The local magic shop is about 6 hours away...
And when iam doing street magic I have a set routine, patter, crowd control.
And I do not get payed.
except for this show I am doing.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 5:07 pm 
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born to perform.

Joined: 23 Jul 2004
Posts: 2440
Location: NJ
mikeoo92 wrote:

...
I do not plan on messing anything up. i have practiced and practiced, and am still practicing for this.
I am not going to mess up.

...
And when iam doing street magic I have a set routine, patter, crowd control.
And I do not get payed.
except for this show I am doing.


Ok first of all, nobody plans to mess up. Congrats on practicing, seriously, i am not being sarcastic here. Lots of people do not. But, you can not know what is going to happen at the show. So, it can also be beneficial if you plan ahead. Not as in you mess up the trick on purpose, but you also need to practice outs incase (when not if) you do mess up. Everybody messes up eventually it is inevitable that you will make a mistake. So, you should have ways of getting out of tricks if you mess up.

For the second part, you said when you do street magic. Steet magic is NOTHING like kid show magic. In fact i would classify it as the exact opposite. So, i recommend getting a practice show in before you do your first show as a paid gig. Do not just show it to your family, as they will be nice about things. If you flash they won't tell you cause they don't want to hurt your feelings, but not helping is a bigger problem. So, once you have a show together and practice it on your own, then try to sign up for a library. Practice your show there. You will have stragers watching your show who do not care if you look bad, so they will let you know.

Ben Winter


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 5:32 pm 
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Joined: 26 Aug 2003
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Location: H-Town PA
Honestly, the most productive thing you can do for yourself now is find a good camera and show us what you have been practicing. We will then carve it up, and you will rebuild it into something better. The process will be repeated, a few times, and in the end you will have a half decent routine.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 5:43 pm 
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Posts: 302
Wow thanks for the advise! seriously!
I am going to make a video of the rough draft routine with my patter as soon as I can.
(My dad is about to go to Iraq so we have alot of work to do here)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 6:15 pm 
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mikeoo92 wrote:
No I have been actually doing magic for longer than 4 years just really into it for about 4 years.
And at least thats the first trick I can remember.
Why would I lie about that?
honestly I am not lieing about anything here...
and
Ukcop
I do not plan on messing anything up. i have practiced and practiced, and am still practicing for this.
I am not going to mess up.

why cant you people support people? instead you just put them down?


and also i do not have a local magic shop. The local magic shop is about 6 hours away...
And when iam doing street magic I have a set routine, patter, crowd control.
And I do not get payed.
except for this show I am doing.
It doesn't matter how long you've been doing magic. It doesn't mean you have experience. I know some magicians who have been practicing magic for 15-20 years. They are great with the technical aspect of magic, but they could not perform a show to save their lives. They don't have the performing experience, and that's what's important. So just because you fooled around with magic, doesn't really mean anything.

You do seem to be getting caught up in your story though. I know how you feel. It's as if we're all ganging up on you, and you're just being defensive, and trying to make yourself look better, so that we don't continue to hassle you. But really, we aren't trying to be mean; we're just trying to help. And it would be much easier if you just stop trying to be defensive. Take what we have to say, and put your ego aside. It's hard to do; I know. I had to do the same thing when I came here. But in the long run, it will help you out greatly. You will be able to better yourself as a performer.

Don't count on not messing up. No one plans on messing up. But the simple truth is that you will mess up. It's inevitable. You may not mess up your first show, or even your first 10 shows. But you will eventually mess up. Every magician does. Every entertainer does. The secret is to learn how to deal with a mistake, and make it seem as if nothing wrong happened. I've messed up from time to time on my shows. Many of the effects I do are not 100% effective all of the time. And I prefer effects like that, because it means that I have to be able to think of my feet. You have to be able to deal with the unexpected, and use it to your advantage. I love doing so because I think it gives the show a little bit extra. But I don't suggest trying to do so right away. And practice is very important. Don't get me wrong, I practice my routines constantly. I could do them in my sleep, and I nearly have. But you always have to be ready for the unexpected. For instance, what if you're doing a show and a baby starts crying? What if some kid decides he wants to start running around? What if a drunk adult walks in and starts to hassle you? There are many things that can happen, that will screw up your performance. Those are things you must thing about.

We aren't putting you down. We are giving you the advice that you need to know in order to become successful. And hopefully, others like yourself, will also read this and find the information that they need as well. We do support other magicians, that's why we come off as being critical, and hard. But if we weren't, then we'd be doing you no good. Sugar coating the information does not work. But if we come out with it blunt, and straight to the point, then maybe you will pick something up.

Finally, if the video wasn't suppose to show your performance skills, then you should not have implied that it would. I do hope that you get your next video out soon though. Don't worry about making it look professional. If you have a video camera and a tripod, just set it up and perform your routine. No need for anything fancy.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 6:22 pm 
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Posts: 302
ok,

I have learned alot from everyone here the past 2 days.
And i was reading up on something that would back your posts up. It said

"A magician can practice and practice to were he has every technical move down perfectly 100% but with showman ship it is nothing."
or
"A magician can barley get by on any slights but with the perfect showman ship he can pull anything off"

your right I do need to start looking at What could happen.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 6:24 pm 
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Joined: 20 Jan 2008
Posts: 615
Entirely true, a good magician can make the 21 card trick look like a miracle, an amateur makes a complex trick into a basic puzzle.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 6:32 pm 
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Another good quote:

"An amateur practices until he can get it right. A professional practices until he can't get it wrong."

Nothing to do with showmanship, but a cool quote.

My thoughts on presentation are basically "copied" from Tyler Wilson's, and I'm not afraid to admit it. He opened my eyes. I used to think presentation was everything... it's not. Without a strong effect at the core, your presentation is for nothing. The presentation merely enhances the effect.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 6:33 pm 
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Posts: 615
I dont agree. Obvioulsly the stronger the effect the better the reaction with equally good presentation, but i can get a better reaction out of a dynamic coins than alot can from an acr.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 6:37 pm 
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when I am doing acr to like ages 20+
i like to do fallen at the end
(I know I know its E's but its still a great effect)
I get the biggest reactions with that!
one time I did kaos and a girl started shaking and dropped the cards and had to go home.
(I don't know if that was a good thing or a bad thing)


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