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PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 10:49 am 
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kristenl wrote:
Hi tbwent,

I know Sluggo-- he is anything but an "#$(%^! ". He WILL go out of his way to help someone IF they want to go about it the right way. As he has said, a lot of the professional magicians get frustrated and don't come on here just because everyone wants to do a show before they know what a show is, have a show, or know the first thing about crowd control.

I do agree that everyone needs to start somewhere. If that weren't the case, my daughter wouldn't be doing magic today. The only difference is that before she ever took a job, she had a show. That is all the guys are trying to express here and what I tried to politely suggest up above. Postpone the gig for now-- put together a show--learn it, learn to be a performer, then go out and get the job.

As in all things there is a certain order to things in life-- shortcuts never benefit anyone. Not the magician, and certainly not the kids.

I am one of the biggest advocates of kids. I truly believe they are tomorrow's future, but to be tomorrow's leaders, they must first learn today.

lierke, I still wish you all the best. I hope you do decide to postpone your show and do some learning first. I am sure you will find a lot of magicians willing to help you if you want to put in the time.

Just to give you an idea-- it takes us anywhere from 6 months to a year to put together a new show for our daughter. That is for us to come up with the concept, script it, rehearse it, video tape it, dress rehearse it, until it is finally released to the public. Now, the long time professionals on here will do this much faster, but that is years of experience. Remember, you want a long standing reputation (a good one) and each performance will contribute to this.

~ Kristen ^_^


Kristen - go back and reread Sluggo's post. He is a #$(%^!. This guy/kid was polite and thankful and looking for some guidance. Sluggo launched into the guy like a pitt bull. Would you talk to someone like that in person?

"You are too lazy"
"People like you gives us ... a bad name."
"You are a hack"
"worst enemy"
"I no longer have the patience to listen to their whinny pleas."
"total moron"

Do you want your daughter to treat people this way? Would you be happy if some treated your daugher this way when she was first exploring the craft.

You can mentor people without tearing them down.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 11:20 am 
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tbwendt wrote:
Kristen - go back and reread Sluggo's post. He is a #$(%^!. This guy/kid was polite and thankful and looking for some guidance. Sluggo launched into the guy like a pitt bull. Would you talk to someone like that in person?

"You are too lazy"
"People like you gives us ... a bad name."
"You are a hack"
"worst enemy"
"I no longer have the patience to listen to their whinny pleas."
"total moron"

Do you want your daughter to treat people this way? Would you be happy if some treated your daugher this way when she was first exploring the craft.

You can mentor people without tearing them down.


Sluggo is in no way what you are calling him. he is a true advocate for children and believes that EVERY child deserves the best show possible.

Let's go to the original question. Lierke wrote:
Quote:
I need a children stage magic act by summer, I don't have any material yet, and I was wondering if you guys could help me a bit? my budget is low 100-150$ I have sponge balls and I will definitly get a coloring book, and an appearing cane, unless someone tells me why not to. If you make a list can you also explain why you put it there.


I don't see him asking for mentoring, he is asking us what our act is so he can steal it. My act is MY act! Fitted to my personality and style and my character's personality and style, I guanantee you that if you and I do the same act one after the other You will bomb out. If I tried to do your act I would look stupid.

Sluggo tells the truth, If you want to do kids shows, LEARN from a mentor don't steal an act. Go to your Ring or Assembly meetings and get a mentor, we will be glad to help you. (Please don't ask what or where the Ring or Assemblies are because then there is no hope for you.) You can get the meeting times and locations on the internet.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 11:31 am 
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Tb, my post was not meant to get on your bad side. I was only pointing out that Sluggo and Paddy both have hearts of gold, and I know they are both willing to help those interested in pursuing magic. I guess it is different when you communicate with someone outside of the forum and you see a different side of them.

As to how my daughter was treated when she first started exploring magic, we were blessed with being a part of a wonderful magical community and our friendships have blossomed over the years. Even back then though she would never have asked someone what routines she should do for a show. We have always come up with our own material, read books, studied, listened to all information anyone was willing to impart, brainstorm ideas, and listened to any input or feedback that anyone was willing to give at our assembly as she performed different aspects of her show.

As to someone addressing my daughter, I will admit to being the fiercest of mama tigers. I am very overprotective. No one has ever addressed my daughter with anything but kindness and respect-- but she has never given anything in return but respect, kindness, and commitment. She is now almost 16 and I have never heard her use a disrespectful tone to anyone-- she has a very kind and nuturing nature. Paddy has been nothing but supportive of her and her magic.

I don't want you to misunderstand me. I want Lierke to succeed! It is why I thought it best for him/her to postpone the show for a year or so, that way he/she could put together an act, have time to study it, prepare it, and learn the nuances of being a performer and managing children.

Being a child performing for other children brings on a whole new dimension to children's entertainment. You have to be even better because you have to gain the respect of your peers. They are not going to want to behave for you as they would for an adult. To them, right out of the gate, you are just another kid. You have to set your boundaries and show them that you are the one in command-- and all the while make sure they are having fun and enjoying the show. It is no easy task. It is why I often suggest anyone young performer who hopes to deal in children's magic spend some time volunteering working with children in their community. Learn to become a leader. It is a skill set that will last you a lifetime.

If we don't teach children the art of magic it will be lost-- and what would the world be without magic? But just like any other subject, you can't give someone the answer. If you gave someone the answer in math, they may have the answer, but next time they are alone will they be able to solve the problem? It is our job as mentors to question them, provoke them, make them think outside the box.

I think the best we can do is agree to disagree respectfully in regards to the other matter. I know some of my magician friends can come off a bit harsh sometimes, but I also know they would be the first to help any kid who really had the desire to learn magic. That is the trouble with forums, they appear one dimensional and what human is ever one dimensional?

Respectfully,

~ Kristen ^_^


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 1:15 pm 
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I know how to work with kids me and my brother monitor kids at a huge playground/camp, so I know how, and I have been a close-up magician for 2 years, I am 15, and yes I have performed (close-up), I just thought it would be nice to perform for kids, as well, thanks for the advice, and like I mentioned before I wont do my show until i'm 100% ready for it.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 4:02 pm 
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Lierke,

I'm glad to hear that you work with children. That is a bonus, especially if you want to expand into children shows. The difficult part about it is managing the kids, yet maintaining a professional image for the parents. You can't appear child-like and on the same level as the children you are performing for. It is a difficult line you have to walk if you want to be taken seriously.

With summer approaching if you can spend more time as a camp counselor and learning the balance of mentoring younger children and yet taking on the responsibilities that your adult counterparts will respect, it will help you in your magic career-- believe it or not. My daughter has gotten magic work through our district because of her volunteer work. They also let her promote her work, which is really cool. The added bonus is that you also always have a ready audience who loves to watch you try out new material. It is a good way to beta test.

My daughter has yet to really get into closeup magic. She really focuses on stage/family entertainment. She loves children, which is one of the reasons she spends so much of her free time volunteering and doing family magic.

The thing about magic is to find what you are most passionate about. What is the thrill of magic for you? Who do you really want your target audience to be? Once you really know what you want out of it--- just follow that path and work hard towards it.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 4:58 pm 
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Calm down and give this buy a break!!

I hate it when people jump all over someone who's generally interested in magic!!


Last edited by tedricpancoast on Fri Mar 27, 2009 5:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 5:00 pm 
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Wow,

Ok............ a free show for 10 kids is NOT the same thing as playing to a sold out theater of hundreds. I agree that the kids derserve absolutely our best but we ALL started somewhere.

Sluggo............. think back to your first show? Was it really all that great? I mean compared to the show you could present now? We all learn as we go. Give the guy a break.

I agree........... it sounds like the guy has some real hurdles (no budget to start) but at least he's trying to prepare ahead. He's doing it this summer, not next week.

I have 6 performaces at the local theater in April for literally thousands of people. All are sold out. I have a reputation and people expect a lot. I have put thousands of dollars and thousands of hours into my show too, so I'm not advocating a hap hazzard thrown together show. I'm just saying, he needs to get his feet wet and see what he thinks.

Good luck,

Do YOUR best, don't worry about other peoples shows

Ted

ps................ it's really all relative. Compared to Copperfield all of our budgets are a joke!! My point is, GET OVER YOURSELVES!!! There is always somebody better and more entertaining. I do my best, that's all I can do. Hack is relative too.............. I'm sure to some, we are all hacks.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 10:28 pm 
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tedricpancoast wrote:
Wow,

Ok............ a free show for 10 kids is NOT the same thing as playing to a sold out theater of hundreds. I agree that the kids derserve absolutely our best but we ALL started somewhere.

Sluggo............. think back to your first show? Was it really all that great? I mean compared to the show you could present now? We all learn as we go. Give the guy a break.

I agree........... it sounds like the guy has some real hurdles (no budget to start) but at least he's trying to prepare ahead. He's doing it this summer, not next week.

I have 6 performaces at the local theater in April for literally thousands of people. All are sold out. I have a reputation and people expect a lot. I have put thousands of dollars and thousands of hours into my show too, so I'm not advocating a hap hazzard thrown together show. I'm just saying, he needs to get his feet wet and see what he thinks.

Good luck,

Do YOUR best, don't worry about other peoples shows

Ted

ps................ it's really all relative. Compared to Copperfield all of our budgets are a joke!! My point is, GET OVER YOURSELVES!!! There is always somebody better and more entertaining. I do my best, that's all I can do. Hack is relative too.............. I'm sure to some, we are all hacks.


I didn't want to be the first one to post something like that, but what you say is true. I agree completely with what you've just said. I almost quit doing magic a while ago because of some people on here.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 3:13 am 
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It's not that I'm limitted to that budget, I can go much higher, but my concern is I don't want to make purchases I wont use, I will definitly get seriously silly book/or DVD, which one do you guys think is better? Thanks for all the help btw.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 11:14 am 
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It is always a personal choice. In our household my daughter and I much prefer books, while my husband prefers the DVDs. If you don't mind studying books, then I think you get more out of them. But again, that is just my personal opinion.

Maloney, I am glad you stuck with your magic. No one should ever dissuade you from doing something you love (just as long as its legal! LOL) and I am glad you decided to stick with it.

I just hope everyone realizes, even when I come off strongly, that I do so because I want what is best for the kids on here. I am no different with my own child. Anything worth having is worth working hard for it.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 11:41 am 
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thanks for the advice kristenl, but no one in my family does any form of magic, you can help your daughter, but no one can help me, and that is excactly why I posted this post.

lierke


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 1:56 pm 
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kristenl wrote:
It is always a personal choice. In our household my daughter and I much prefer books, while my husband prefers the DVDs. If you don't mind studying books, then I think you get more out of them. But again, that is just my personal opinion.

Maloney, I am glad you stuck with your magic. No one should ever dissuade you from doing something you love (just as long as its legal! LOL) and I am glad you decided to stick with it.

I just hope everyone realizes, even when I come off strongly, that I do so because I want what is best for the kids on here. I am no different with my own child. Anything worth having is worth working hard for it.


Thanks Kristen.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 2:02 pm 
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Have you considered joining a Ring or Assembly? There is a vast of information out there and you will benefit greatly by having one-on-one mentoring. Meetings are only one time per month, so it shouldn't interfere with school too greatly. My daughter does have to miss them occasionally if she has a big test, but otherwise she'll even take her homework with her. If your local ring or assembly do not allow you to join at your age (it is at the discretion of them) ask them about a youth group.

I have written a lot of information in this section about performing for children. Do a search on my name and look at some of my past posts. There will be a lot of information there about your original question. It will not give you any specifics as to tricks to perform, but it will give you an idea of what type of magic is good for this age group.

My daughter might have had us to help-- but we were all in the same boat at the same time. The three of us were all newbies. Trust me, we completely muddled our way through it. We made a lot of mistakes, but along the way something inside you clicks and you start to brainstorm. Once that happens the possibilities are only limited to your imagination.

Together the three of us brainstorm and come up with a main concept for a show. After that the three of us also do completely different things. My husband is most definitely our illusion builder. He does beautiful work and she has some very nice crafted pieces thanks to him--- and one signature piece she does at every stage show. I like to dabble a bit in this process, but all credit must be given to him. Myself, well I pretty much design her shows (the good and the bad) with a lot of input from my daughter. My daughter then tweaks my ideas / shows to make them personally hers-- because ultimately it has to be a reflection of HER. Then comes the hardest part. She has to be the ENTERTAINER. She will spend hours rehearsing a show until every action/word is committed to memory.

The reason that this step is so important is because no show will ever be the same, because there will always be a different dynamic at each show. Also, always be prepared for SOMETHING to go wrong. By having your act completely ingrained within you, when something does happen that is unexpected, you can then completely handle the mishap and cover for it. If you are ill-prepared for a show and have a mishap, you will be less likely to know how to react to it. I hope that makes sense? Even a mishap or mistake can be used to your advantage.

During rehearsals, my husband and I will throw everything possible at her that could go wrong. We will act like the most rotten, outlandish, heckler children you can imagine--- and it gives her the opportunity to practice how a situation can be handled. It would be to your benefit if you could recruit your brother or your parents into helping you with your rehearsals-- even a trusted friend--as long as they will act serious enough to actually let you rehearse and you can stay focused. My daughter has two assistants (box jumpers). I act as one and her best friend acts as another.

If you have any specific questions please do not hesitate to ask. If you come up with something in particular you are curious about as to a piece of magical apparatus and you want to know if we like or dislike it please do not hesitate to ask. You can easily spend a fortune of magic and find it sitting in a box somewhere collecting dust. I am sure others will be happy to answer your questions as well if they are more specific.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 7:21 pm 
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Ok,

Here's where I am with this.

Paddy and Sluggo. You guys both owe this KID an apology. He's 15. If you really care about kids like you say, you will apologize. Otherwise you guys are.............. well................ all of those things that you called this kid.

Ted


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 5:39 am 
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Ted, no there are no apologies necessary at all. As was pointed out the first post appears to ask us to give him a show to do. Kristen said the same thing as Sluggo but phrased it a lot nicer than he did. Sluggo just used a 2 x 4 to get his attention and Kristen used a silk hankie to do the same thing.


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