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PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 8:57 pm 
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i agree with every last thing you had to say about the middle/jr.high age group, but as a bunch of other magicians have allready said, if you are really dedicated to the craft you can do anything.


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 Post subject: well yeah but...
PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 11:49 pm 
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most kids in adelescents (ignore the typo on that) want to feel supior so they bring the magic tricks like you said. also it is true that most people dont want to be misdirected and all of that but i think that bringing the tricks to school is just better practice for someone so that way they CAN misdirect without peple noticing it. or slight of hand gets better..also like David Blaine said..."magic will open someone up and leave them vulnerble like a baby for that brif moment" (dont quote me on that but thats what he practicly said) so i think its more practice and having them want the secret is just wood for the funace.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 4:51 am 
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I think that sleight of hand os something that you can practise easily without the aid of someone else. Get a video camera and record yourself, and watch it back. Do not look at yourself in a mirror (that's a tip from the legend himself, Michael Ammar). If you practise in a mirror, you're trying to perform magic and analyse yourself at the same time. If you record yourself, you can concentrate totally on the presentation, and then pay your full attention to self-analysis. That way you can identify muct easier the areas in which you need to improve.

Long story short, you don't have to show other people tricks in order to improve your sleight of hand. Exceptions are things like the Classic Force, but the way you practise that is by doing tricks that don't require a forced card.

The performance side of magic you can, too, practise without going anywhere near a deck of cards. You practise it by a) hanging out in social groups and learning just to be yourself; b) going to some kind of acting school.

So you can improve the skills you need for magic without ever showing anyone a trick. It's when you get to a suitable level that you can show your work to the outside world, and when you perform it, all you're doing is making minor tweaks to the presentation and perfecting the trick.

I think that all children (myself included) are generally too hasty in wanting to show people their magic. There was an experiment where individual children were given five or so Smarties, and were told that if they didn't touch them for two minutes, they would get the whole tube. Whadda you know? No-one waited; they all took the few Smarties they had. The experiment was repeated on older children with a little more patience and they all waited.

The same principle comes into play here. Children want to expect that they can perform a trick almost out of the box, or be ready to perform it in a few minutes. The truth is that most magic requires weeks of practice; in the case of complicated sleights, years. Very few should take days and even fewer should take less than a day.


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 Post subject: yes...if you dont want the views of people you r showing
PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 8:44 am 
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i say..get yer friends first and show them..if they say that they enjoyed the trick and you should show pepole then do it..you dont even need to sohw them the secret. just say "you enjoy the trick....do you think i should show it to other people" and the recording is just weird because..the mirror helps with your slieghts and see what the other people will see. i personally believe that if you cant do a slight of hand withough looking...then dont show anyone untilk you can anyway..doesnt matter how good you are..you can work on that later. the slights a re a huge principle in magic..besides yer shpwmanship and charisma. so i still think that...yeah..go to school and just have fun with it youll learn more by doing that becuase youll just see what it takes to misdirect and completly make yerself better...it worked with me and im 12 years old. 8)


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 Post subject: Re: yes...if you dont want the views of people you r showing
PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 12:21 pm 
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Guardian452 wrote:
I..you dont even need to sohw them the secret.


That is slightly scary. Do you usually show them the method? Why would we even consider showing the method to someone if you are asking them if it's an enjoyable trick?


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 3:26 pm 
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Location: Somewhere in the vicinity of Betelguese 5
I feel that I have some expertise in this area. I am not a teenager, but I work with pre-teens and teens on a daily basis. I have an after school club for aspiring magicians. What I have seen is two types:

1) The kid who "just wants to know how it's done." This type usually lasts ony about four weeks, before giving up, because they realize that it is much harder than they expected, and can't handle learning the basic sleights I teach them. They want the "instant gratification," or the ability to pick up a trick and immediately be amazing. I hate bursting their bubble when they come in wanting to know how Blaine did this, or Chris Angel did that, but everyone has to learn the basics first. :twisted:

2) The kid who really wants to learn magic. They absorb everything I teach them, and posess a natural talent. These kids read everything I have, seek out books at the library, and make Penguin Magic richer by buying as much as their allowance will allow! I had one student last year who was able to master several color changes within weeks, almost to the point where I was fooled! When the student can surpass the master....... :roll:

I also have children of my own who want to learn tricks, and are elementary aged. They also want to be able to instantly do magic without practicing. It is difficult to tell an 8 year old to practice in front of a mirror for hours before performing, but they do, if they want to get good. They learned that lesson after I taught them the French Drop. They tried it right away on their friends without hardly practicing, and I don't think I need to tell you how that went! :shock:

In conclusion, young people need the benefit of performing, but should do it in a controlled situation, if possible, in order to perfect their skills. They shouldn't perform for "friends" unless those friends are supportive of their art, and definitely not perform for peers who make a habit of tearing people apart. Also, young men, beware of performing for the "hot chicks" with boyfriends. She may find you amazing, he will not. Unless you're a fast runner, don't impress the girls with the boyfriend there......

Thanks for letting this old man rant.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 3:37 pm 
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Good post, jamesjay.

I have a theory that into which category you falls depends on how you first became interested in magic. If you began by having close relatives showing you the "public domain" tricks like the broken thumb trick, the key card trick, and that "take away the number you first thought of" trick, then you'll grow from there, learning basic tricks and working up.

If, on the other hand, you watch ed a Blaine/Angel special and got into magic because of them, then of course you'll want to get like them, and being a id you want to do it quickly. If that's the case then your bubble needs to be burst as soon as possible before you get to big for your own boots and reveal secrets not meant to be.

With everything you do you always have to start at the bottom. The only job where you start at the top is gravedigging.


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 Post subject: no i mean..
PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 9:51 pm 
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GOD NO!!!!! :oops: i wouldnt show the secret....i just meant that..dont show the secret to anyone and then show it to other people...but get yer friends opinion first..about how it looks...so basically. do the trick..ask what they thought...if its good show others..if not go home and practice.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 1:24 am 
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If you're suggesting that you perform it to friends within days of getting the trick, you're most likely going to reveal some aspect of the trick to them by accident. Sure you know they won't blab, but but you're still giving the secret to someone else for free.

If on the other hand you mean that you practise for several weeks, and then when you are confident to perform the trick flawlessly in public, you begin by showing it to friends to get their opinions before you try it on strangers, then there's nothing wrong with that.


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 Post subject: YES
PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 8:36 am 
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thats what i meant..i got my B-2 Bomber but that trick only took me 1 hour to get down enough to show it to people..i got Cardtoon 1 and that trick is hard..the instructions arent very clear...and te video isnt on my account to watch quite yet. so yeah..i meant practice untill you can do it with yer eyes colsed...then show it...also..lawboy..whats yer favorite street magic trick??? :wink:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 8:49 am 
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I'm in a phase where I'm not performing much magic (due to exams!) but all in all I'd say my favourite street magic trick is Stealth Pen Thru Dollar (which leads well into Recap Revisited).


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 Post subject: i know
PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 1:46 pm 
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im stopping to practice becuase most people at my school are total asses about it..like RESEARCHING IT ONLINE OR OTHER CRAP...its awesome though when you take the pen out of the dollar and they're face is all.....HOW THE (BLEEP) DID YOU DO THAT!!!!!!...or also i love when they think somethings up and then they want to look at the pen..and i let them....whats is the best levitating trick out there


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 6:17 pm 
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Lawboy wrote:
If, on the other hand, you watch ed a Blaine/Angel special and got into magic because of them, then of course you'll want to get like them, and being a id you want to do it quickly. If that's the case then your bubble needs to be burst as soon as possible before you get to big for your own boots and reveal secrets not meant to be.

With everything you do you always have to start at the bottom. The only job where you start at the top is gravedigging.


That's not always true, I got into magic because of seeing Blaine, but I, not instantly but nonetheless, did understand the importance of practice. I think it's really that the person teaching them must emphasis practice.


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 Post subject: o well
PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 10:43 pm 
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me too i saw david blaine and criss angel and now im slowly getting into magic and practicing like edited on every single trick..sure it would be nice to instantly be great at it but those guys gave up their childhood and lives for thier job/carrer. and also (i was doing some back reading) and about the recording thing..most people will agree with me abou this...when yer in the mirror and practicing, you analyze yerself so you know exactly how the audience sees it and ..while looking at the mirror at all times...you get better at slights without looking at yer hands. once you got that down..the equation is this...trick+imagination=performance :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: o well
PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 11:06 pm 
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Guardian452 wrote:
sure it would be nice to instantly be great at it but those guys gave up their childhood and lives for thier job/carrer. and also (I was doing some back reading) and about the recording thing..most people will agree with me abou this...when yer in the mirror and practicing, you analyze yerself so you know exactly how the audience sees it and ..while looking at the mirror at all times...you get better at slights without looking at yer hands. once you got that down..the equation is this...trick+imagination=performance :mrgreen:


Giving up their childhood? Blaine, yes, if you've ever read his book, Mysterious Stranger you'd know he started doing magic ever since he was like 3(not exageration). But Angel, I doubt it, he's an okay stage magician, but most of the effects he do on TV are either camera editing or stooges. I have to give him credit for creating his levitation, but I'd respect him if he'd just do magic like that, instead of camera tricks and stooges, also if he'd stop challenging and denouncing Blaine, magic is not a competition.

Also, practicing in front of the mirror is great, I do it all the time. But if you're willing to take the trouble, record your performance, that way you won't have to worry about watching yourself while you're doing the slieghts, but I hardly ever do that, I'm very lazy.


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