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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 12:06 am 
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born to perform.

Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 890
Excellent topic & post David!

I hope it will get the attention it deserves!


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 12:55 am 
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Emperor Penguin

Joined: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 11155
Location: Penguin's Most Feared Intellect
I always thought reading and heeding the advice of others was common sense, otherwise why even read? I think this particular essay is a lost cause, mostly because the people you are trying to project it to will not read it, which is a very good case of irony. They have not taken advice so far, they won't decide to start now. Another key element is to be able differentiate who is actually qualified to give advice, because I have seen A LOT of very bad advice given here over the years.

It was obvious to me that this advice was not based upon real-world experience, mostly because of my background regarding the subject which spans almost three decades in the real world. I also noticed people recommending products, or trashing products that they obviously did not even own, and called them on it many times. They simply based their opinions on hearsay, and other reviews they have seen. I spent the majority of my magic career "listening and learning" to the classic masters via text, not a bunch of wannabe "forum magicians."

Heck I did not even own a computer until about age 26. I was too busy performing from age 16 and on anyway, and doubt I would have sat on the internet all night during my initial learning process. However I am at a point in my career where I have enough legitimate experience to pass it on, as opposed to being on the hunt myself. However should that occasion arise I go to the Cafe, mostly for product reviews.

But I do find it very humorous to say the least when I see some 12 year old giving advice on an effect he has only had for a few days if that, and speaking as though he is a master who has done magic 50 years. Those types get eaten alive at places like the Cafe, and it is never pretty. But pretty funny when it does happen.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:09 am 
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born to perform.

Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 1222
I think that this should be made into something that new members should read, or at least sticked.
When I first joined I read some people's posts and I thought, wow, that's pretty harsh. But then after reading this and being here a couple days I realized that it was just to help them, to make them better, to not get them in a situation where they fail, etc.
Thanks for the essay and it really showed me things from the other side of the computer.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 4:33 pm 
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Emperor Penguin

Joined: 22 Sep 2003
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Location: Penguin's Most Feared Intellect
There is no point stickying threads in a forum where very few topics are actually posted. That is why I requested that this forum be made, so that essays could all be in one place. Nothing is going to get too buried under two pages. Stickies are only necessary in the other more popular forums, which I also disagree with as far as posts go because it clearly exhibits a bias from the mods.

The only thing that should be stickied are topics related to Penguin, rules, news, announcements etc. Provided they also do not have their own forum.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 5:02 pm 
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born to perform.

Joined: 15 Apr 2006
Posts: 1140
Location: England
sirbrad wrote:
But I do find it very humorous to say the least when I see some 12 year old giving advice on an effect he has only had for a few days if that, and speaking as though he is a master who has done magic 50 years. Those types get eaten alive at places like the Cafe, and it is never pretty. But pretty funny when it does happen.


8)

Yeah, nice essay Dave. Sorry if i critisized your posts a while back. I do have a lot of respect for you, I just thought sometimes you flew off the handel. No hard feelings?

Nice job with pointing out this stuff. It's a shame that so few new posters actually read the essay forum.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 9:19 pm 
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Emperor Penguin

Joined: 22 Mar 2004
Posts: 7253
Location: Texas
sirbrad wrote:
I always thought reading and heeding the advice of others was common sense, otherwise why even read? I think this particular essay is a lost cause, mostly because the people you are trying to project it to will not read it, which is a very good case of irony. They have not taken advice so far, they won't decide to start now. Another key element is to be able differentiate who is actually qualified to give advice, because I have seen A LOT of very bad advice given here over the years.

It was obvious to me that this advice was not based upon real-world experience, mostly because of my background regarding the subject which spans almost three decades in the real world. I also noticed people recommending products, or trashing products that they obviously did not even own, and called them on it many times. They simply based their opinions on hearsay, and other reviews they have seen. I spent the majority of my magic career "listening and learning" to the classic masters via text, not a bunch of wannabe "forum magicians."

Heck I did not even own a computer until about age 26. I was too busy performing from age 16 and on anyway, and doubt I would have sat on the internet all night during my initial learning process. However I am at a point in my career where I have enough legitimate experience to pass it on, as opposed to being on the hunt myself. However should that occasion arise I go to the Cafe, mostly for product reviews.

But I do find it very humorous to say the least when I see some 12 year old giving advice on an effect he has only had for a few days if that, and speaking as though he is a master who has done magic 50 years. Those types get eaten alive at places like the Cafe, and it is never pretty. But pretty funny when it does happen.


Are these addressed to me, specifically the first one? As I do have real world experience and knowledge. I only review items I have used in my performances. And I am far from 12 years old. I always try to give the best advice possible, for the most part.
The few poster I mentioned, I felt, were qualified to list... as they usually always give excellent advice and post, such as yourself.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 9:37 pm 
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Joined: 22 Sep 2003
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No it is not referring to you. The ones who I was thinking of are long gone, but there are a few here who are still doing it.


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