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 Post subject: Ruining Magic
PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2008 12:33 pm 
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Joined: 03 Mar 2008
Posts: 161
There are countless essays on how annoying twelve year old "magicians" are. People keep complaining that they just a buy a trick, and then the next day they go out and perform it crudely exposing the secret.

I however disagree. "Old School Magicians" say that you should get an effect and practice it in front of a mirror for weeks and weeks or months on months of nothing but practice. Circumstances are different for kids and adults. Kids have to go to school, they mainly perform for their friends and for people who see them everyday. So you have spend three months practicing and perfecting a very angle-sensitive routine. You show it to your friend. You floor him. He is totally amazed because you executed it flawlessly, luckily not flashing. "Do it again!" It does not matter who you perform for, if you do something good they are going to want to see it again. You know that since they are looking for it and your angles are tight, you can not perform it like that again. SO you try to smooth talk your way out of it, "Let me show you somthing else..... Ohhh crap I don't know anything else..." Your stuck, you just say no. But they persist. You can do nothing but walk away and look like an idiot or expose the trick.

Then there are the twelve year olds who buy a lot of overpriced tricks from E and perform them all the next day. Some twelve year olds don't completely suck. They show lets say an ambitious card routine. Do it again! No how about I show you something else. He then goes into some other routine and manages to pull it off. By that time the people are satisfied our have to go somewhere so the twelve year old just had a half decent performance and looks like he could have done more so the people will be back and asking for more magic. While with the other one who practiced and honed one routine will look like an idiot and no one will want to watch him perform.

At least the twelve year old kids perform. Unlike the other ones who stay secluded from society and to nothing but practice. The point of magic is to entertain. To perform is to entertain if the kid doesn't screw the trick up.

So those of you who say that twelve year olds are ruining magic are, in my opinion, wrong. They are the next generation of magician's if any of them see to stay into magic into their adulthood.

I am not trying to justify youtube exposure. That is totally wrong and most of the videos there are exposing the tricks and make them look dumb. But in real life performances situations are different they can't hit rewind and look for what went wrong. With a little misdirection any sleight can go unnoticed.


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 Post subject: Re: Ruining Magic
PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2008 11:07 pm 
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Joined: 02 Mar 2008
Posts: 296
Sabby wrote:
There are countless essays on how annoying twelve year old "magicians" are. People keep complaining that they just a buy a trick, and then the next day they go out and perform it crudely exposing the secret.

I however disagree. "Old School Magicians" say that you should get an effect and practice it in front of a mirror for weeks and weeks or months on months of nothing but practice. Circumstances are different for kids and adults. Kids have to go to school, they mainly perform for their friends and for people who see them everyday. So you have spend three months practicing and perfecting a very angle-sensitive routine. You show it to your friend. You floor him. He is totally amazed because you executed it flawlessly, luckily not flashing. "Do it again!" It does not matter who you perform for, if you do something good they are going to want to see it again. You know that since they are looking for it and your angles are tight, you can not perform it like that again. SO you try to smooth talk your way out of it, "Let me show you somthing else..... Ohhh crap I don't know anything else..." Your stuck, you just say no. But they persist. You can do nothing but walk away and look like an idiot or expose the trick.

Then there are the twelve year olds who buy a lot of overpriced tricks from E and perform them all the next day. Some twelve year olds don't completely suck. They show lets say an ambitious card routine. Do it again! No how about I show you something else. He then goes into some other routine and manages to pull it off. By that time the people are satisfied our have to go somewhere so the twelve year old just had a half decent performance and looks like he could have done more so the people will be back and asking for more magic. While with the other one who practiced and honed one routine will look like an idiot and no one will want to watch him perform.
At least the twelve year old kids perform. Unlike the other ones who stay secluded from society and to nothing but practice. The point of magic is to entertain. To perform is to entertain if the kid doesn't screw the trick up.
So those of you who say that twelve year olds are ruining magic are, in my opinion, wrong. They are the next generation of magician's if any of them see to stay into magic into their adulthood.

I am not trying to justify youtube exposure. That is totally wrong and most of the videos there are exposing the tricks and make them look dumb. But in real life performances situations are different they can't hit rewind and look for what went wrong. With a little misdirection any sleight can go unnoticed.





Okay?

Quote:
Kids have to go to school



1. Adults go to work.



2. you perfect a trick until you have mastered it, you are NOT going to master an effect that you have been practicing for an hour. Even if its simple it should take you about a day to master that ONE effect, theres patter, presentation and the ins and outs.



Quote:
So you have spend three months practicing and perfecting a very angle-sensitive routine. You show it to your friend. You floor him. He is totally amazed because you executed it flawlessly, luckily not flashing. "Do it again!"



3.You said it. That's right 12 year olds perform for their friends and family ONLY, well at least most of the time. How ever when I was 12 i performed at the mall on the stage, close up to people to my friends and family, however i did NOT do street magic, I was with the SYM and the mall let us set up a little place where there was close up tables where people would come by and i would show them a trick.



Quote:
], if you do something good they are going to want to see it again. You know that since they are looking for it and your angles are tight, you can not perform it like that again. SO you try to smooth talk your way out of it, "Let me show you somthing else..... Ohhh crap



4. If you are new, you wont spend two three months practicing a trick, BECAUSE that's for PROS, that's for people who have been in magic for 10 15 years + people who ALREADY have LOTS of tricks they have perfected tricks so when people ask them to see another trick, they have one because they have been in magic for 10 + years.


Quote:
Some twelve year olds don't completely suck. They show lets say an ambitious card routine




5. Sorry but you just burned yourself. An ACR takes months of practice hours after hours, to perfect and get it right. You can NOT master a ACR with practicing for ONLY 3 hours. It takes longer then that. You need to know the sleights, the routine, the patter, the presentation, the ideas to take care of hecklers, the ins and the outs that stuff you DONT KNOW.



6. read number 4.



Quote:
Unlike the other ones who stay secluded from society and to nothing but practice



7. sorry but that one was just not right at all. I practice ALOT but I still manage to go out every single day with my friends, If i don't go out I have hockey or basketball or volley ball or track or badminton. I have lots of other sports and hobbies and one of them happens to be magic. I do magic and I'm good at it, I practice when I can and still maintain a lot of outside things. I have a lot of friends and a lot of sports, and if i'm not for some reason doing one of those things then I will go on here on the computer and respond to some "Huge Ego 12 year old" Now don't say I hate 12 year olds cause I'm still a teenager. I don't think ALL 12 year olds are like this but, a good 95% of them are, and you just happen to be one of those "Huge Ego 12 year olds"



Quote:
To perform is to entertain if the kid doesn't screw the trick up.



8.you WILL screw the trick up if not practiced enough. There you burned yourself again. you have to put time and practice and research into an effect before you buy it.


Quote:
With a little misdirection any sleight can go unnoticed



9. You burned yourself again, Sleight of hand and misdirection takes months of practice, oh sorry not months i meant YEARS, yes you cant perfect sleight of hand over day, there is hundreds of thousands of different sleights out there, and know one has perfected them. My Idol is Jeff McBride who just so happens to be amazing at sleight of hand, but he hasn't perfected it, NO BODY CAN. Its impossible period. Sleight of hand takes forever to get good at and misdirection takes just as long to get good at.

and finally number 10. [size=24]YOUR COMMENT MADE NO SENSE.


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 Post subject: Re: Ruining Magic
PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 11:49 am 
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born to perform.

Joined: 27 Sep 2006
Posts: 3120
Location: Everywhere, but no where
Sabby wrote:
I however disagree. "Old School Magicians" say that you should get an effect and practice it in front of a mirror for weeks and weeks or months on months of nothing but practice.

1: "Good Magicians" say that you need to practice an effect till you can perform it well - before you try to perform it.
2: If it take you that long, you need to find a new hobby. A month is more than enough time to learn most effects, and as you progress in magic your learning time will shorten.

Sabby wrote:
Circumstances are different for kids and adults. Kids have to go to school, they mainly perform for their friends and for people who see them everyday.

Child = school for 6 hours a day
Adult = work for 8 hours a day + commute + assorted other errands

Adults have more demands on their time than children - and yet we somehow find the time to practice. :roll:

Sabby wrote:
So you have spend three months practicing and perfecting a very angle-sensitive routine. You show it to your friend. You floor him. He is totally amazed because you executed it flawlessly, luckily not flashing. "Do it again!" It does not matter who you perform for, if you do something good they are going to want to see it again. You know that since they are looking for it and your angles are tight, you can not perform it like that again. SO you try to smooth talk your way out of it, "Let me show you somthing else..... Ohhh crap I don't know anything else..." Your stuck, you just say no. But they persist. You can do nothing but walk away and look like an idiot or expose the trick.

I have no idea what this section is suppose to be about, since it doesn't further your point at all.

1: If you know your performing environment is a school yard, you shouldn't be buying angle sensitive effects to begin with.
2: If it took you three months to learn the effect, you need to find a new hobby.
3: If you've leanrned the effect appropriately, why can't you re-adjust your angles and do it again?
4: And finally, why would you use an "out-line" that you couldn't follow up on?

Apparently this guy is just plain stupid.

Sabby wrote:
Then there are the twelve year olds who buy a lot of overpriced tricks from E and perform them all the next day. Some twelve year olds don't completely suck.

I demand proof of that.

Sabby wrote:
They show lets say an ambitious card routine. Do it again! No how about I show you something else. He then goes into some other routine and manages to pull it off. By that time the people are satisfied our have to go somewhere so the twelve year old just had a half decent performance and looks like he could have done more so the people will be back and asking for more magic. While with the other one who practiced and honed one routine will look like an idiot and no one will want to watch him perform.


The problem is that what you're suggesting is incredibly unlikely. Ambitious card is a 'sleight-heavy' routine. Wihtout practice the method is obvious and the effect is pointless. Beyond that, the kid will have a hard enough time remembering what to do next, let alone how to execute the moves - let alone how to do another effect after that.

Sabby wrote:
At least the twelve year old kids perform. Unlike the other ones who stay secluded from society and to nothing but practice. The point of magic is to entertain. To perform is to entertain if the kid doesn't screw the trick up.

If their performance is pooly exected - it's better for them to stay home.

Those of us who spend significant amounts of time practicing are also the ones who spend the most time performing. We practice because we want the performance to be good - without performing, there is no motivation.

Sabby wrote:
So those of you who say that twelve year olds are ruining magic are, in my opinion, wrong. They are the next generation of magician's if any of them see to stay into magic into their adulthood.

Well, your thoughts on the subject suggest that you probably are a twelve year old, so I'm guessing your opinion is a bit bias. :roll:

Sabby wrote:
With a little misdirection any sleight can go unnoticed.

True, and it takes practice to learn misdirection. It also takes practice to learn how to do sleights in the open.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 7:15 pm 
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Joined: 02 Jan 2004
Posts: 62
Location: Aberystwyth, United kingdom
I really have to agree with the others here with there comments but one thing I will say from experience is that I have learnt myself that practice is importance and constance practice at that. I am not talking about sitting in a darkened room for months on end, waiting to perfect every slight, but with every performance, learning what could be improved.

If I am honest, it usually takes me between 3-4 hours to 2 weeks to learn a trick. By that I mean slights. When I perform it though in shows and on the street, it is usually months afterwards. The reason. It has nothing to do with learning and practicing, but it is to make the trick so unbelievable, so realistic and develop the pyschology behind the trick that people believe more than they have seen.

I personally have noticed a lot of 12 year olds who this basically is a fad. They enjoy seeing magicians on Tv and decide that this is for them. It is a normal concept for a child (yes a 12 year old is a child... get to grips with it) to become infatuated with something, then bore easily. Look at how many people come to these kinds of stores, why drama workshops and ballet classes are so popular. Children see these things on TV/real life and want to imitate it, after all that is how we learn.

I am not saying all 12 year olds are like this, but the vast majority are. That is why you get the youtube videos, as people are convinced they are ready to show others, and do not have the experience behind them.

But to Sabby, if you want to be a good magician, someone who is better then this "stereotypical 12 year old magician" that you speak about, practice, prepare, and look into it deeper. There is a true art to magic, something that is missed out by many people.


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