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 Post subject: A lot to learn- Learning from the new generation
PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:15 pm 
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Emperor Penguin

Joined: 24 Jun 2006
Posts: 6622
Location: Penguin's Most Feared Intellect
Ever since I've become active in the magic community, I've realized that some of the older magicians simply refuse to respect the new generation of magicians. In my case, this became noticeable quite a bit after I decided that I wanted to offer my advice to the up and coming magicians. I spent a good amount of time writing essays on how to become successful as a magician, partly based on my own experience, as well as what I had learned from many other magicians.

When I first decided to release those essays, I found that a lot of the magicians who claimed to have decades of experience in magic fully hated what I was posting. Not because of the value of it, but because I was posting it. How dare a 19 year old with only a few years of experience performing professionally give out advice to other magicians. That was a couple of years ago; however, the information that I gave was never refuted. Instead, I was personally attacked for the simple reason that I dared give my opinion.

Two years have gone by, and the same attitude still exists with a group of magicians. It's not just me that they attack, but anyone who is a young magician. But what are they afraid of? Are they really that imitated that possibly someone who is younger could help out the magic community?

Now, I've been performing professionally for 5 years, or nearly that long. Compared to others, that really isn't too long. But in those 5 years I've really flourished as a magician. I've had a lot of failures, but I've also had more success. It's upon that experience that I wrote those essays, and that I write these. Does it mean I'm an expert? Far from it. However, just because I'm not a veteran in this business doesn't mean that I should be overlooked either. Especially if my advice is sound.

But let's get this clear, I'm not talking about just myself. There are many more magicians like me who have great advice, but are shunned because we aren't old enough, or we supposedly don't have real experience. The sad thing, many people are loosing out on very good information that could benefit them because of that prejudice. There is a lot to learn from the newer generations, and I believe that is something we all should realize.

That doesn't mean we should ignore the veterans either. They have wonderful advice as well, but they should not be the only source of advice one goes to. Because the truth is, maybe there is a magician who has only has a year experience, but they know something that we could all benefit from. Also, just because someone claims all the experience in the world, one should still be weary of it.

I hope I got my point across. This wasn't something I intended to write, but I thought there was a need for it. There are many of older magicians who are very helpful, and encourage the younger generation to share their ideas. For instance, Paddy and DaveV instantly come to mind. They have a wealth of knowledge on the subject of magic. Could they learn something from me every now and again, possibly, but they are also open to that idea, and I believe they would encourage us younger generations magicians to give out advice, because they know they don't have all of the answers (but they do have a lot of them). It's the other group that, the ones that attack the younger generation that have a lot to learn from us. Because really, without the younger generations, magic would eventually cease to exists (please don't misconstrue that as to me saying that we are the best. I don't believe that. But the older generation will pass on, and we will be the ones who are left).


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:32 pm 
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born to perform.

Joined: 20 Jun 2007
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Location: www.mymagic reviews.wordpress.com
*claps* Thanks for saying something! I too have been shunned of things that I have said or done by older magicians just simply because I'm in a new generation.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:57 pm 
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born to perform.

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fallingblood, Well, if you took the time to write it...it says to me that you felt the information has some importance. Believe me when I tell you that when young guys like Joshua Jay or Brad Ross talk, I listen. I also know Jay Noblezada personally and he too impresses me each time we exchange ideas. I for one am always open to new ideas and different ways of thinking outside the box. I wouldn't worry about how others view you. Putting your thoughts into words helps others, as well as, yourself.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:10 pm 
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Emperor Penguin

Joined: 24 Jun 2006
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I agree. But then being told that you're just an ignorant child really doesn't encourage the some to actually even try exchanging ideas. More or less, it makes one feel as if they just wasted a good amount of time for nothing.

Now, you are one of those people who encourage the younger generation to speak. I think that is wonderful and I applaud you on that. There are many magicians like yourself, but then there are many who are the exact opposite. In particular, there is one forum which I won't mention that is very notorious for the practice of shunning any younger magician.


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 Post subject: Re: A lot to learn- Learning from the new generation
PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 11:08 am 
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Penguin

Joined: 15 Sep 2010
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When you stop listening you stop learning. You are a member equal to everyone else in this forum. Afterall noone says what you say has to be the truth. I hope in this forum that people will not take my words for the truth, but consider them and maybe adapt them to their own style. That's what it's all about in my eyes.

I'm here to grow, while helping others do the same!


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 Post subject: Re: A lot to learn- Learning from the new generation
PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 9:04 am 
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born to perform.

Joined: 13 Jun 2010
Posts: 540
[joke]
oh boy, another kid going off on a tangent about how good he is.
[/joke]


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 Post subject: Re: A lot to learn- Learning from the new generation
PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 12:00 am 
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Penguin

Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 444
Location: Every where you want to be
"new generation" and what exactly is that ?

It's a new age for sure...Less book reading, more videos etc. "be an instant star" on Y-tube and others.

I have found that "most" (not all) new effects sold are just "basic-old-school" effects, check out Penguins Instant Downloads...All of them "credit" original "old" methods.

Download the trick today, and perform it tonight...REALLY ??!!

I think that magic has become more about $$, and less about performance, as in selling tricks on DVD instant downloads etc. and less about keeping secrets a secret.


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 Post subject: Re: A lot to learn- Learning from the new generation
PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 4:18 am 
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born to perform.

Joined: 22 Mar 2003
Posts: 3251
Location: of my spongeballs eludes me.
There are plenty of secrets that are kept as such. I trust that you have some too.

Magic is for everyone! Let them be an instant star if they desire to be one or at least think they are. Some will just fade out of sight while others will go on to improve their presentations.

As far as the "Book vs. DVD" issue; How was magic taught before books became a good source to learn from and in many instances still is taught the same way today? In person and during live, one on one sessions. What better way to virtually provide that instructing scenario? Books are important and have their place but with the opportunity to learn by video one can experience teaching that they may never have otherwise. The cost to travel and then to pay for the benefit of personal instruction would be out of the question for most.

In regards to Instant Downloads, what is wrong with some instant gratification of instruction? The technology is here, embrace it for it's benefits. And if they are able to perform the effect that same day, GREAT! Why care if their performance isn't spectacular. After reading about an effect in a book their performance isn't going to be any better either.

Yes, magic has become more about $$$ and that can be looked at as a good thing. Since the market is flooded with props, effects and variations of those effects; One has more effects to choose from, different methods and styles of teaching to choose from and then also a wider path to create effects/instruction of our own and share or market them. Magic is much more accessible today and there are now more who appreciate it as a craft and treat it as such and in bigger ways.

Fallingblood, great post. Unfortunately there will be different types of "cliques" everywhere one goes. Fortunately their attitude is not with the majority even if it feels like it occasionally. It's too bad for them that their magic is in a box, trapped with no where to go. They have extremely limited themselves and I wouldn't be surprised if their performances show it. Let their attitudes grow old and wither away with them.


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 Post subject: Re: A lot to learn- Learning from the new generation
PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 10:26 am 
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Penguin

Joined: 15 Sep 2010
Posts: 339
Wow both of you making such good sense and stating great arguements!

I However feel that magic today has become too accesible. When I started (8 years ago) in my country, you had to REALLY want to become a magician to find out where to learn it, and when I started I didn't even dream that I would come to know all I know today. I thought the secrets were too well hidden and you had to really search and know magicians to know more. At the time I started, everyone could do magic, but It was always based on a simple 21 force. Now beginners learn major secrets like the DL and the TT (and I call them major secrets cause so much can/could be done with them.) What is the next thing beginners learn? I really feel it's moving in a bad direction. Why do you think we have so many posts inhere about handling hecklers and the phrase "I know how that's done!"? Eventually if magic can be bought too cheap, you get the people that share the secrets, and it will be harder and harder to impress people. I agree that future magicians that are really willing to learn and practise well before going out should have access, but then again, with all the information being too available the bar is rissen again and again to being able to impress, and where does that leave the beginners? Buying quick gimmicked effects from Penguin?

It's a paradox!


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