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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 10:29 pm 
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oztheozzie

I like the fact that you reason with whom you are talking to and time will tell on certain issues. I really feel that the hatred was unwarranted toward Criss Angel, but on the other hand if people have real concerns such as yours there should be a freedom to express this without getting attacked as well.

So I respect your opinion on the matter...


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 3:14 pm 
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ok... lets put it in the most simplest way... what if I came to all of you haters that are magicians and ridiculed and hated you for just doing tricks for fun? a trick is a trick impromptu or not... illusionists make illusioins.. duh. magicians are illusionists.. this whole fight shouldnt have even started... why argue? its a good illusion and can be done easily in an audience... its all performance. with or without stooges, gimmicks, actors, wires, ect... its performance whateve shade of color you spray it its the same thing as it was before.. a performance.. an illusion. nothing more. nothing less. it isnt impossible to make such illusions.. there is a nice kit called the icarus that does similar things to criss's levitation.. criss could have just found a more flashy way of applying this affect in some different way that allows more free movement. and thus that is where you find where he flew from one building to the next.. there is endless possibilities. I believe no matter what the illusion. there is a way you can pull it off if you set your mind to it.. I have seen this levitation done before by criss. it isnt fake.. I followed him and saw it in 3 random places. its a very elusive illusion at best.. the best Ive seen in my life.. and the whole seen in the bar. he could have hidden it behind the bar from the people in front of him.. same as his escalator scene.. the wall on the ecalator was just enough to obstruct vision of what was really happening. I have done many similar things and actually made my own technique. it isnt impossible to apply this to higher heights.. Im just afraid of heights and failure and thus I have not done it more than once... now please... stop fighting over it... no matter what shape, size, color, ect you make it.. its what it is. and theres nothing to change that... now why havent I heard anyone pick at david blaine? he is far worse than criss ever could imagine... blaine thinks he is all that cause he does the king rising and barcculdi -_- and he thinks his floating paper and dollar trick is the bomb... I could teach it to a 5 year old... leave angel alone and actually ridicule those who dont have the high talent... in fact... you should ridicule yourself so that you can improve your own skills. instead of wasting time on putting down a fellow illusionist...

its an illusion. its meant to be fake. geeze


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 4:12 pm 
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thank you for that one that should end this dumb debate, its an illusion everyone knows he cant really fly so why make a big deal about how he did it just know that he did do it and thats all that needs to be said


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 4:13 pm 
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born to perform.

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Sorry CameraEdit, and Ahso13, I gotta say something.

Naksys wrote:
ok... lets put it in the most simplest way... what if I came to all of you haters that are magicians and ridiculed and hated you for just doing tricks for fun? a trick is a trick impromptu or not... illusionists make illusioins.. duh. magicians are illusionists.. this whole fight shouldnt have even started... why argue? its a good illusion and can be done easily in an audience... its all performance. with or without stooges, gimmicks, actors, wires, ect... its performance whateve shade of color you spray it its the same thing as it was before.. a performance.. an illusion. nothing more. nothing less. it isnt impossible to make such illusions.. there is a nice kit called the icarus that does similar things to criss's levitation.. criss could have just found a more flashy way of applying this affect in some different way that allows more free movement. and thus that is where you find where he flew from one building to the next.. there is endless possibilities. I believe no matter what the illusion. there is a way you can pull it off if you set your mind to it.. I have seen this levitation done before by criss. it isnt fake.. I followed him and saw it in 3 random places. its a very elusive illusion at best.. the best Ive seen in my life.. and the whole seen in the bar. he could have hidden it behind the bar from the people in front of him.. same as his escalator scene.. the wall on the ecalator was just enough to obstruct vision of what was really happening. I have done many similar things and actually made my own technique. it isnt impossible to apply this to higher heights.. Im just afraid of heights and failure and thus I have not done it more than once... now please... stop fighting over it... no matter what shape, size, color, ect you make it.. its what it is. and theres nothing to change that... now why havent I heard anyone pick at david blaine? he is far worse than criss ever could imagine... blaine thinks he is all that cause he does the king rising and barcculdi -_- and he thinks his floating paper and dollar trick is the bomb... I could teach it to a 5 year old... leave angel alone and actually ridicule those who dont have the high talent... in fact... you should ridicule yourself so that you can improve your own skills. instead of wasting time on putting down a fellow illusionist...

its an illusion. its meant to be fake. geeze


First of all, welcome to Penguin Town, nice to have you here, I think.......

Second, I think your whole paragraph was about 3 sentences..... How bout going to school and learning some grammer? Oh and what's barcculdi, new levitation? You gotta teach me sometime.

Anyways, see you are the kind of person that does not argue with reason. So you're saying that an illusion is an illusion, no matter how it is acheived. Like I have mentioned before, Angel using camera tricks is like pro athletes using steroids. The athletes still play well, so it doesn't matter if they cheated or not? If those illsuions are acheived by camera tricks, they are not illusions, they're special effects that should be in movies. Don't you get it? As magicians, we lie, it's our job, but we are "Honest Lyers", if a magician uses camera tricks to acheive an effect, he's a lyer period.

There are people that pick on Blaine, alot. You can teach a 5 year-old to do floating dollar bill, but try teaching yourself to do the Simple Switch if you even know what that is. Also Blaine didn't even do the King Rising, don't try to argue if you don't have your facts right. King Rising came out years after Blaine's Street Magic special. Blaine is much better a magician than you ever will be.

As for comparing Angel and Blaine, Angel is a stage magician, Blaine is a close-up/street magician, they're too different to compare. And about Blaine doing easy tricks, well first of all, his technical skills are much better than yours (simple switch). Second, if you say that Angel using camera tricks is fine, then how can you bash on Blaine for doing easy effects when camera editing is cheating and taking the easiest way out?

At least when I was argueing with CamerEdit and Ahso13, they argued with reason and proof, you're just biased and one-sided.

Anyways, I didn't accuse Angel of anything, all I did was explain why his arguement isn't even an arguement.

-Oztheozzie


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 4:24 pm 
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[quote]Anyways, see you are the kind of person that does not argue with reason. So you're saying that an illusion is an illusion, no matter how it is acheived. Like I have mentioned before, Angel using camera tricks is like pro athletes using steroids. The athletes still play well, so it doesn't matter if they cheated or not? If those illsuions are acheived by camera tricks, they are not illusions, they're special effects that should be in movies. Don't you get it? As magicians, we lie, it's our job, but we are "Honest Lyers", if a magician uses camera tricks to acheive an effect, he's a lyer period.


how are you going to tell this guy to learn grammar when there are at least 15 mistakes in the paragraph. anyway, you want proof that he does not use camera edits, i want proof that he does. untill you can show me a tape that hasnt been edited yet im going to have to believe that its a real illusion. Too many people are quick to believe that he uses edits, i was reading some other forum i forget which one, but someone couldnt figure out some easy trick and he said it must have been a camera edit or stooge. i mean come on its obvious he has talent or he never would have gotten a television show, because if a&e wanted to just cheat the audience wouldnt you think they would have picked someone who can act better than criss or someone who is cleaner and wont scare the kids away with his gothic look. and by the way "lyer" is spelled liar.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 4:39 pm 
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Quote:
how are you going to tell this guy to learn grammar when there are at least 15 mistakes in the paragraph. anyway, you want proof that he does not use camera edits, I want proof that he does. untill you can show me a tape that hasnt been edited yet im going to have to believe that its a real illusion. Too many people are quick to believe that he uses edits, I was reading some other forum I forget which one, but someone couldnt figure out some easy trick and he said it must have been a camera edit or stooge. I mean come on its obvious he has talent or he never would have gotten a television show, because if a&e wanted to just cheat the audience wouldnt you think they would have picked someone who can act better than criss or someone who is cleaner and wont scare the kids away with his gothic look. and by the way "lyer" is spelled liar.


Sorry for my grammer mistakes, least it was a paragraph. But I'm sorry, I know that wasn't neccesary.

Like I said in my last posts in the Criss is not About Camera Tricks thread. It's obvious he does use it, that's unquestionable, but we can't tell how much he uses it, that's why I have tried to stop bashing him for that. I didn't even accused him of using it in my last post. All I did was explain that if he did use it, it's not ok, it's cheating. At least read my post before you reply. I never accused Angel of using it.

-Oztheozzie


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 4:46 pm 
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Quote:
As magicians, we lie, it's our job, but we are "Honest Lyers", if a magician uses camera tricks to acheive an effect, he's a lyer period.


Were you trying to quote to me? "Like other magicians such as Jamy Ian Swiss, I am an "honest liar," Criss is simply a liar, period."

http://www.penguinmagic.com/discuss/vie ... iod#804098

At any rate, nice to see some of what I say actually sticks around here.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 5:21 pm 
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Yeah, I've been using that alot.

Thanks, that's like my motto now.

-Oztheozzie


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 12:56 am 
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ok.. [edited] does my grammar have to do with the point Im making? ive seen this guy do his levitation trick.. it isnt stupid camera angles... and that must have been a very very large angle to make him float that high.. why dont you think for a moment and let people have their opinions and perhaps allow others to know something. you dont know everything. your not always right... when you insult the way I type and talk, that just proves that your not a person worth listening to. allow others to have their opinions. allow them to speak without critizism. yes I know I mispelled and hardly used the right punctuations and bla bla bla bla ect.
Who cares!? you only said that because I had a valid argument. and that I could have possibly have been correct. now Im not arguing anymore. I saw what I saw. if you dont believe me, thats your problem. But that gives you no right to put me down because of my lack of grammar and punctuations.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 1:08 am 
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the two levitation effects I told you about in my first post both are actually old methods used by entertainers in 600 a.d. and so on. if you wish to go deep.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 1:32 am 
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I already apologized for that, I know that wasn't nessecary. Again, I apologize. I do let others have their opinions, have you read the above posts in this thread? I have already tried to withdraw from discussions targeting Angel's use of camera tricks or stooges.

On his levitation, he released one of his levitations, I know that one is not edited. But he did use stooges for that one. A person said somewhere in the forums about how Angel was teaching the right angles for said levitation, and then he showed a clip of him doing the levitation with people watching from the wrong angle, obviously stooges. That is just one example, there are many other evidences that lead me to beleive he uses camera editing and stooges, but that's my opinion. If you believe he doesn't, I respect your opinion.

Your post that I responded to seemed to suggest that you beleive that even if Angel uses camera editing and stooges, it's ok because it's still an illusion. See, that's an opinion I cannot respect or understand. When we perform our illusions, they are fake magic, but they are real illusions. These illusions are accomplished fairly. But if a magician accomplish an illusion with the use of camera editing, it isn't an illusion, it's a special effect that should be in movies, not a magic special. Like I said before, magicians using camera editing to accomplish magic effects is like a pro athlete using steroids to enhance their performance in their sport. Does anyone seriously approve of that?

Again, I will quote Sirbrad. We as magicians lie to people, it's our jobs, but we are "Honest Liars", but if a magician uses camera editing to accomplish the illusion, he is a liar period.

Naksys, I do respect your opinion on how much Angel uses camera editing and stooges, like I said in other posts, there are no way to say for sure how much he uses it. But I hope I convinced you that using camera tricks is not right or acceptable, it's cheating.

And agian, if I offended you in my last post, I apologize, my fault.

-Oztheozzie


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 1:50 am 
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oztheozzie

Let me just say this. Regarding the Levitation in the bar, if Criss was really trying to hide the fact that the people in the front were stooges don't you think that the illusion would only be done with people in the back?

Just the fact he isn't hiding that should tell you something. What if you found out that the people in the front are not stooges but are applauding what fooled them previous? A true reaction. Would that not make things different?

I mean its out there in the open. Its for us to see him and to realize that the people in the front are applauding either the skill of the shown effect or applauding what fooled them previous.

The other thing you have to consider is why on earth would Criss need Stooges for such a levitation!?
Think about it.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 1:55 am 
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Naksys

I seen Criss Angel as well live. Where did you get a chance to see the levitation?

I mentioned on these boards previous that I have seen him, that people have filmed him with their own camera's etc. I've also talked to other who have been there as well.

I was blown away with the type of stuff he seemed to be doing in front of everyone.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 11:40 am 
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CameraEdit wrote:
oztheozzie

Let me just say this. Regarding the Levitation in the bar, if Criss was really trying to hide the fact that the people in the front were stooges don't you think that the illusion would only be done with people in the back?

Just the fact he isn't hiding that should tell you something. What if you found out that the people in the front are not stooges but are applauding what fooled them previous? A true reaction. Would that not make things different?

I mean its out there in the open. Its for us to see him and to realize that the people in the front are applauding either the skill of the shown effect or applauding what fooled them previous.

The other thing you have to consider is why on earth would Criss need Stooges for such a levitation!?
Think about it.


Well, good theory, but very unprobable. No matter how you think it, Angel probably used the stooges to enhance the effect, which I at least understand, as long as he doesn't do it a lot.

-Oztheozzie


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 1:33 am 
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Yeah and even if he showed them how the trick is done, which is called am what, EXPOSURE, the people are still stooges. Their reactions are shown merely to enhace the effect. Face it cameraedit, criss angel uses camera trickery and stooges too often. Blaine's use is pushing it (one stooge, one camera trick), but angel has gone way past pushing it. However, understand I believe only about 20-30% of what he does uses stooges and/or camera trickery.

Sirbrad, Ive quoted u too on the honest liars, good way of putting it. And I've heard people quote me saying angel is a stage magician trying to be a street magician so once n awhile people listen on here.


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