Hard Proof Criss uses stooges, AND he broke the golden rule

MichalAngelo · **Joined:** 26 Jun 2006 **Posts:** 1435

Keep in mind that Angel asked Kole to use HIS illusion...meaning KOLE's method. ole declined permission to use his effect...meaning his method. This left Angel to find his own method or simply, a different method. I seriously doubt that Angel used Kole's method.

As for Angel using stooges. Do you remember when he did his levitation from the floor to the chair? He performed this in a room FULL of people. There are people directly to Criss' right, that areclearly in on the effect, as they can clearly see the method of the levitation. Yet they applauded and acted astounded at the feat. Hired stooges or not, I can guarantee that not only did they sign a release for the television broadcast, but they also signed Nondisclosure or Secrecy Agreements, as well.

Having done television shows, myself, I can say with certainty that stooges are VERY common in television magic. They are a form of insurance. The whole purpose is to make the effects look perfect. With stooges, you can get the perfect reaction, even it takes 3-4 takes. The illusions are performed almost flawlessly because it may take a few times of rolling the camera and rehearsing it. Using stooges actually saves time AND money, as you don't have to waste film on perfoming the effect over and over waiting for a good take or a good reaction. As I said before...it's like a form of insurance. Stooges insure that your performance is as entertaining as possible.

Aside from Angel, Blaine also uses lots of stooges. Severalmonths before his Drowned Alive special aired, his company ran a classified ad in the newspaper holding auditions for "Extras" for his upcoming special. "Extras"? Why would you need "Extras" if you're performing magic to "random" spectators"? Think about it.

magikrn · **Posted:** Mon Jun 26, 2006 12:23 pm

very good points, as i said they are assistants for the show, they make the show that much better.

openwire · **Posted:** Tue Jun 27, 2006 1:24 am

That’s all fine and dandy but I don’t think you should claim you can do this stuff for any one you walk up to on the street like he does. If it takes him 3 or 4 takes to get 1 effect right then he cant do it for just any one, the first try. Or he may get lucky and do it. I don’t know I don’t really care any more. It think he should just be a little more clear on his wording if that is the case.

magikrn · **Posted:** Tue Jun 27, 2006 7:48 am

he can do these things, they just go up to the people before hand to alert them that criss or david is going to be coming up to them and they may be on t.v.

openwire · **Posted:** Tue Jun 27, 2006 11:51 am

Quote:

With stooges, you can get the perfect reaction, even it takes 3-4 takes.

Masonogy1 · **Posted:** Mon Jul 31, 2006 5:39 am

openwire wrote:

Or the fact that kole said in his letter that Criss used stooges, that cant be proof by any means... Im not going on hear say or guessing and I could care less how the trick works. Did you actually listen to the podcast? Kole said in black and white on paper that the only way Criss did what he did with people in the pool is if he used stooges. Im not making this up or coming to my own conclusion here, I simply reposted what I HEARD read to me from Kole him self.

Maybe if I didnt hear that Criss went to the guy who came up with one of the best known versions of this effect I would be a little more open minded. I never thought any thing bad of him and I never thought he used stooges (like people say) or camera tricks until I heard that letter from Kole.

And you may know 30 ways to bring a card to the top of a deck but I dont think they are on the same page.... Walking on water... bringing a card to the top of the deck.... ok There can only be so many methods to do this and I doubt there are 30. So hey, if Criss responds to this claim fine, maybe Ill change my mind, so until then I heard what I heard.

And although not directed at me I never thought the elephant trick used a crowd of stooges or any thing else, all I care about at this point is a tiny pool that they told ‘A LOT’ of people about that ‘CRISS ANGEL’ was going to be there and then I seen like 20 people around/in a pool. Im not even going to go so far as to say every one of them was a stooge but I think the possibility that at least the girl swimming around his feet wasn’t 100% legit.

One last thing, I have personally never used a stooge (because I dont do stage shows) and I just havent done any thing that needs one yet. Honestly Im not 100% against using one every now and then, but seriously having your stooge give an interview like they have no idea whats going on is just wrong.

OMG DUDE... You look so old by your picture, but you act so immature!!! There ARE countless ways to perform ANY trick... You can say they arn't on the same page, because that what people hundreds of years ago would have said about putting a card in the middle and having it jump to the top as exodus stated... It would have been impossible to them, but here we are today finding ourselfs flooded with methods... You must understand that effects do not have a SET number of ways in order to be achieved!

The mind goes furthur than the eye!

Thanks
Mason Roberts

joeweismantel · **Joined:** 10 Feb 2005 **Posts:** 3

if you bought the coin in soda can bit, criss all but admits to using a stooge for at least that effect. if you watch the performance on tv, how many people actually walk around vegas with a can of unopened diet coke?

joeweismantel · **Joined:** 10 Feb 2005 **Posts:** 3

if you bought the coin in soda can bit, criss all but admits to using a stooge for at least that effect. if you watch the performance on tv, how many people actually walk around vegas with a can of unopened diet coke?

sullyman · **Posted:** Thu Aug 10, 2006 11:04 am

People that just bought a can of diet coke and havent had a chance to open it yet.

goldbomb444 · **Joined:** 25 Jun 2004 **Posts:** 123

I say Jesus should sue Koles [edited]...Kole would respond by saying the disciples were stooges :lol:

jonathanb510 · **Joined:** 07 Jun 2005 **Posts:** 225

Excellent work Mr. OPENWIRE.

This is a huge problem in the magic business.

magicman222 · **Joined:** 22 Feb 2003 **Posts:** 866

Criss probably just told the lady to hold the can to save them the time of filming them going out and buying it. You don't need a stooge to perform the effect, so why use one?

r3b2 · **Joined:** 31 Aug 2004 **Posts:** 45

The whole point of this thread was to talk about the legal/moral ramifications of Chris doing an effect which was at least inspired by Kole. Look, as far as Chris using stooges, yes, he does. That has been pretty well established. It has also been established that they are not much different from a gimmick.

As far as camera tricks go, I dont know enough about camera work to make a definate decision, however I have noticed that it cuts out moments when a "move" would have been done. Once again, I'm not sure of this.

Now, here is my two sence: Chris definately was inspired by Kole's rendition of the trick. Therefore, the proper and respectable thing to do would have been to mention him somehow. He could have said his name backwards for all I care, but the fact of the matter is that there was no acknowledgement at all. As far as magicians morals, dont hide behind that crap theory that, "we lie about magic, and we cheat; its what we do. Therefore, we can do it with everything else." Im a magician. If I kill a hooker, and lie about it, is it ok because I'm a magician? If I steal something by palming it off, is it ok because I'm a magician? If I go behind someones back, a contemporarie's none the less, and do something against his wishes, is it ok because I would go behind his back to perform a trick for him? Absolutely not. What Chris Angel did is wrong. There is no way around it. Even if he did make up his own illusion, it was inspired by Koles.

In hinesight, that was a wee bit more than 2 cents....

Hard Proof Criss uses stooges, AND he broke the golden rule

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