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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 10:41 am 
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roadblock

I'm responding to dins-info just as much as to what your saying, because people often just pick things up and repeat them. The level of threads and posts about 'stooges' far exceeds what I post about.

I realize also you don't think everyone is a 'stooge' but that isn't what most here actually post, a definite impression is left that he is using exclusive stooges and camera edits.


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 Post subject: Re: What bothers me about Criss
PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 10:59 am 
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Greens4245 wrote:
I have heard that Criss Angel is a good magician in person. I have heard that his Broadway show is good. I have heard that he is a great sleight of hand artist. I agree that his T.V. show is a great way for the general public to experience magic. But something still bothers me.
I read all of these post that point fingers at stooges, camera tricks, and every other T.V. trick you can think of. I agree. When you look at a few simple tricks that are only possible with the help of a stooge, it makes you question. For instance, last week Criss is in a bar and grabs a "strangers" jacket. He pauses while a waitress walks past, puts the jacket of two "strangers" hands and a full bottle and bucket of champagne appears. Come on. This might be a poor example but seriously, not one person in there helped out on that? The acting on some of the stooges brought forth are horrible. I cannot remember what trick it was, but it was also last week that I saw the worst show of acting ever. Criss performs a trick and two guys in the background, turn to each other and high five in a way that made me stop my TV just to see it again. Are you kidding me. Never in my 10 years of magic have I had two grown men turn to each other and play patty cake in a bar. Odd?
I'm not saying that he uses stooges 100% of the time, but some of the effects are just so obvious. I don’t know how anyone can defend that. I know I know, I'm just mad because I don’t know how he did it, or because I don’t have my own T.V. show. Is that what you were going to say to me? I'm not questioning whether his show is good or not, I'm questioning why someone that calls themselves a magician would defend that? If you are a laymen, ok I understand. For instance the other night a man said to me" how did Criss Angel float from one building to another?" I just looked at him and said” magic". But I expect that. But from someone who is a magician? I just have this feeling that in person, Criss isn’t going to be walking up a random wall at will. He wont be floating 10 feet over my head in a Christ like pose and I’m also guessing that he wont be making poker chips penetrate through a Non-Criss Angel manufactured deck of cards. Just my thoughts.
O, and before I end this, the exposure deal. The tricks he has been exposing are simple tricks, tricks that the professional wouldn’t use. But what about the third grader whose just getting into magic and has now been crushed because a trick that has good quality to it has been exposed on A&E. Ratings my a$$. I'm guessing that if a show came on at 11 right after MindFreak, and exposed everything Criss had just done, he wouldn’t be very happy. Just my thoughts I guess.


agreed


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 Post subject: I'm glad
PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 2:59 pm 
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I'm glad that this post is getting alot of traffic. To the individual that has proof that the public has witnessed Criss's show. Good for you. I never said that when Criss does magic infront of 100 people that 100 people are stooges. But there is a point that you have to see here. FOr instance, the woman being pulled in half. You have to be a moron the believe that this woman isn’t a stooge, kind of like the people sitting infront of Criss( looking at is face). Criss sells this item, and there is no possible way you could be infront of him when he is performing this. Just be logical. Your telling me that a random woman is going to be pulled apart (which is physically impossible, magician or not) and not be mad about it. Also, the levitation he does with the woman, where he grabs her out of a crowd and she floats infront of him. Come one. I'm not saying that I disagree with the way he does things, its good for the general public. I'm saying that if your honestly a magician and you think that this stuff isn’t stooged, continue thinking that the greatest revolution in magic is the raven or scotch and soda.
The Cutting in half, I think this is a legit trick. Criss crawls onto a platform and gets cut by a blade. Stooges, no, done before, yes. Copperfield does the same thing, its not new, its old. The girl fainting, I could see it. edited I faint when I have to give blood. People have certain tolerance to certain things. My girlfriend will faint if she see's an animal hit by a car, I don’t. I honestly believe that was real. Did he cut himself in half? Probably not.
The point of the post, Criss uses stooges, more than usual. I'm sure that Blaine does to, i'm not supporting him 100%. The first two episodes of Blaine I think had a bigger impact on society because he used normal objects that a realy magician could use, gimmicked or not, and made it so the rest of us could produce similar results. Did he go overboard with the levitation. yes. But he didn’t do that every week.
Don’t believe everything you read, look into things logically.


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 Post subject: sorry
PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 3:00 pm 
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O and sorry that I just typed one huge paragraph, for some reason penguin wont seperate them for me.


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 Post subject: Re: I'm glad
PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 3:08 pm 
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Greens4245 wrote:
I'm glad that this post is getting alot of traffic. To the individual that has proof that the public has witnessed Criss's show. Good for you. I never said that when Criss does magic infront of 100 people that 100 people are stooges. But there is a point that you have to see here. FOr instance, the woman being pulled in half. You have to be a moron the believe that this woman isn’t a stooge, kind of like the people sitting infront of Criss( looking at is face). Criss sells this item, and there is no possible way you could be infront of him when he is performing this. Just be logical. Your telling me that a random woman is going to be pulled apart (which is physically impossible, magician or not) and not be mad about it. Also, the levitation he does with the woman, where he grabs her out of a crowd and she floats infront of him. Come one. I'm not saying that I disagree with the way he does things, its good for the general public. I'm saying that if your honestly a magician and you think that this stuff isn’t stooged, continue thinking that the greatest revolution in magic is the raven or scotch and soda.
The Cutting in half, I think this is a legit trick. Criss crawls onto a platform and gets cut by a blade. Stooges, no, done before, yes. Copperfield does the same thing, its not new, its old. The girl fainting, I could see it. edited I faint when I have to give blood. People have certain tolerance to certain things. My girlfriend will faint if she see's an animal hit by a car, I don’t. I honestly believe that was real. Did he cut himself in half? Probably not.
The point of the post, Criss uses stooges, more than usual. I'm sure that Blaine does to, I'm not supporting him 100%. The first two episodes of Blaine I think had a bigger impact on society because he used normal objects that a realy magician could use, gimmicked or not, and made it so the rest of us could produce similar results. Did he go overboard with the levitation. yes. But he didn’t do that every week.
Don’t believe everything you read, look into things logically.


I agree 100% with you. But I'd like to add that Blaine did not use stooges for his levitation, he edited it to make it look better. I don't approve him doing this, but I understand it because he did it to protect the secret of Balducci and the reactions were from real spectators that saw the Balducci.

-Oztheozzie


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 Post subject: True
PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 3:27 pm 
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True, like the reply. And he hasnt given away secrets to any tricks yet. I honestly dont like how Blaine acts, in all honesty the simple two word sentences that he uses as an approach bothers me, but I respect that fact that he does that 100% of the time. He believes in his magic. I heard angel on the teller show(radio station on the internet) and he was talking about how his tricks are illusions, that anyone can do them because there tricks.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 3:28 pm 
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The girl who gets divided in half is an assistant if you wanna call her a stooge then do so. But she is used to create the desired effect for the audience that is viewing it, especially the blonde lady that was shocked and horrified by what happened. Her reaction was worth it.

If you listen to the interview with http://media.libsyn.com/media/thetrapdo ... 051110.mp3

Banachek he says 'stooges' are not used, nor is camera edits used to enhance effects, nor is CGI used as has been claimed by some.

He says that the magic Criss is doing and the accusations that it brings are a testament to just how good he is.

Banachek is not one to lie, you might know already about his own history and the PROJECT ALPHA etc.
He does say assistants are used in some circumstances similar to what a stage magician might do in certain circumstances.

Now I am not saying this is 100%, but it is pretty close to it being there. You might see some camera misdirection in very isolated shots.

Keep in mind this is TV though and there is also the audience at home. So Criss might use the odd thing, but the point is he isn't relying on them.

As for the effect in the bar with the levitation. I have heard that the effect was shown to them previous and was explained the second time, what your seeing is the second time, and they are not stooges they are applauding the brilliance of the effect and the people in the back are applauding the effect and its 'magic'.

There is no time and need to explain that during the film.

Think about this--Why would he need 'stooges' for that levitation? Why would he make it look so obvious that he is showing it to the front? Obvious he isn't hiding anything to us at that point. He certainly doesn't *NEED* stooges for that effect.

Suspicion, accusations and ad hominem attacks are used exclusively against Criss Angel and or anyone who defends him.

To just add something about TV--People's reactions sometimes might seem forced, due to the nature of what we are dealing with which is a contract to do a TV show, there is a certain pressure.

I am not saying in some instances there isn't multiple shots done, that might be the best way to make sure the product meets the demands.

Remember Criss is doing a lot of effects and stunts week after week, that in and of itself is a very difficult thing to do plus he has to do all his Radio Shows, Tv appearances, Autograph signings, his own preperations for stunts, going over the film shoots--in a nutshell the man at times looks very, very tired.

Under these circumstances it is very hard and difficult to perform but he does one edited of a job. If you ever had to fly here and there, do radio, do all these things on a daily basis you would quickly see your chops going south.

He is under of course enormous pressure and some of his choices I believe are not always the correct ones. Keep in mind also his show is 22 minutes, there isnt' a heck of a lot of time allocated to the effects themselves and probably on certain ones there is a cutaway not to hide a 'lack of skill' but to protect something in the effect itself.

What I personally would do differently on MINDFREAK and of course this is just my own anaylsis.

The Show should be one hour.
The effects and there showing shoud be saved to when they are actually shown i.e the levitation of the girl on freemont st.
They show it before it is finally shown. They should refrain from doing so and make it more of a surprise.

I would also get some of the stunts out of there, that is me though because I personally am not a big fan of 'stunts'. I find them boring. Maybe a few but I would definitely cut them down.

All in all considering the time pressure, the short shooting time sequences, the appearances, he is doing very, very well.


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 Post subject: Ok
PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 4:03 pm 
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Ok, so let me get this right, Banachek is telling the truth in that interview and you point at that this had to be true because of Project Alpha where for three years he lied to scientest that he could bend objects and move things with his mind. I know the history of alpha so you dont have to point out my flaws, they never asked if he was lying, I know, but isnt the point of magic to lie to to get a result? I never said that the woman that he pulls in half wasnt his assistant, I'm saying that the people on this website and others actually believe that she isnt on his side. That he does what he says, he pulls her from the street and does this. You can call them whatever you want, stoog or assistant, whatever. There seem to be alot of assistants then. As for him having to come up with all of these tricks week after week. Well first off, he starts recording these shows as far back as february( i might be a month or two off). Second, he has a staff of like 20 or more magicians working for him. Yeah it must be hard having a staff that huge coming up with effects for him. All the interviews he does? I'm sure the money he is making really isnt effecting him physically. I mean, if I was getting paid 6 digits I would be able to go out and do the few interviews that he does. He stages 90% of his effects, sorry


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 4:19 pm 
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I wouldn't believe crap Banachek says, even if it is on tv. Magicians, don't get me wrong here, I don't meen it in a mean way. But professional magicians are made to be proffesional liars. The things magicians say even in interviews on tv are made to be fibs. Like SOME are stooges or assistants. When there are actually LOTS. That's just one little example.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 4:26 pm 
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Greens4245

All magic is done with the intention to decieve. What Banachek was doing was to 'expose' psychics, his intention was to get at the 'truth' of what was going on. He had a very noble cause. There are a lot of people being taken advantage of with mediums etc.

The point being he is obviously someone who has some morals about him and is not one to lie about something to his peers.
What Banachek done was needed and it proved a point. He didn't do that cause he wasn't trustworthy. HE did it because HE WAS TRUSTHWORTHY and psychics needed to be exposed.

I have seen a list somewhere of CRISS and his schedule and what he has to do, he also is doing music. It was quite the list of 'things to do'.

I really thought his magic and effects would suffer more as a result, I really did. I saw him in Vegas, New York and he was more fresh when I saw him and as mentioned before in another thread I was more impressed with him live then on tv. That is me though.

I know he looks very, very tired at times and again it is really very difficult to keep up the pace he keeps up, people often forget that when they take a look and judge him on this or that.


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 Post subject: ok,
PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 8:36 pm 
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I never questioned Banacheks Morals. I wouldnt do that. He does seem trustworty. Even though copperfield doesnt come out and say, My tricks are real not fake, I'm guessing he still has morals. Magicians are made to deceive people, thats there job. I'm sure CRISS is very good in person, I have heard that and I stated that in my first or second post. I'm guessing he doesnt use a thousand stooges like he does on his show though. You just get tired week after week seeing the same thing over and over. He should limit himself to one show a year, now that would be quality. I guess he is all about quantity though


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 11:03 pm 
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I could sort of agree with the quantity/quality thing. The season is still early so wait on it, some more stuff will come. It is the nature of what he is getting into.

The thing that Criss is doing is very uncharted. He is doing a show every week, he has so many shows to produce and get right, no other magician has had to do this on a tv show week after week with the numbers he has on A&E.

I think he will adapt though, as I mentioned I thought his magic would suffer a heck of a lot more then what I have seen.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2007 9:37 pm 
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100%
nothing else to say


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 8:35 am 
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I agree with certain things. First off I want to defend th use of stooges in magic. Now on tv it's definatly used to much as well as clever editing and angleing. But a stooge is a perfectly valid tool for a magician if used right. A good magician knows his/her craft, as a card magician there are dozens of tricks I can pull off on my own with just a regualr borrowed unstacked deck of cards. But there are more tricks I can do with a stacked deck taken out of my poket, more I can do with a gaffed deck (just got my mindpower deck :P ) and yet more I can do with any combination of these and my magician friend Andy standing in the crowd.
A stooge opens doors, it's the easiest and most visual card through window you'll ever pull off, as long as it's applied correctly. So just because you use a stooge to enahnce an effect doesn't make you a bad magician.

I DO AGREE THAT IT'S DONE FAR TO MUCH ON SHOWS LIKE MINDFREAK! Almost stupidly so, but Blain is just as bad. So I'm with you on most points I just want people to be a bit more open minded about stooges and there correct application like any other magicians tool.

One more thing what's this exposure business? He's exposing tricks on his show now? The 2nd season isn't available over in the uk yet so I don't know about this. I actualy have some respect for Angel but if he's doing that I will not be impressed at all.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 3:09 pm 
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One more thing what's this exposure business? He's exposing tricks on his show now? The 2nd season isn't available over in the uk yet so I don't know about this. I actualy have some respect for Angel but if he's doing that I will not be impressed at all.


Yes he is exposing tricks now, but they arent very good tricks. If a pro magicain is performing some of the tricks like they way he told people to make a styrofoam cup float, then they shouldnt be professional magicians. This does ruin it for beginner magicians though.


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