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PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 10:13 pm 
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i might not approve, but i dont bash him for it. and no i dont approve streoids, but they are breaking an actual rule. there is no rule in magic that says no camera editing.

this is my last say.

i like angel, blaine and other.
i dont approve of camera edits, but i cant make him stop
i dont bash him for that
but i disagree with him bashing blaine and for reveling tricks.

peace


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 11:31 pm 
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DavidTheCryptic wrote:
I might not approve, but I dont bash him for it. and no I dont approve streoids, but they are breaking an actual rule. there is no rule in magic that says no camera editing.

this is my last say.

I like angel, blaine and other.
I dont approve of camera edits, but I cant make him stop
I dont bash him for that
but I disagree with him bashing blaine and for reveling tricks.

peace


Alright, that's all I needed to hear, I'll shut up now too.

-oztheozzie


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 8:23 am 
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I agree with that completly. A good point he made is that steroids are an illegal drug. Camera editing is not. I have two sides to this. I like him, and I don't. The more I think about it, the more editing I think he used. But as for the phone in bottle, if he performed that live for you, his hand WOULD be empty when he pretended to shove it into the bottle. I know how the trick is done. It is accually not in his hand when he pretends to have it penetrate the bottle. Anyway, thank you for your responses. I still have two views about his guy.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 4:23 pm 
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nickedge wrote:
I agree with that completly. A good point he made is that steroids are an illegal drug. Camera editing is not. I have two sides to this. I like him, and I don't. The more I think about it, the more editing I think he used. But as for the phone in bottle, if he performed that live for you, his hand WOULD be empty when he pretended to shove it into the bottle. I know how the trick is done. It is accually not in his hand when he pretends to have it penetrate the bottle. Anyway, thank you for your responses. I still have two views about his guy.


I have one and I'm sticking by it, but I'll respect yours.

-Oztheozzie


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 6:33 pm 
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Quote:
I have one and I'm sticking by it, but I'll respect yours.

Thank you. I respect your opinion too.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 6:50 pm 
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now why cant we all be like this and learn to respect each other and their opinions. this is a very mature and rare thing.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 1:01 am 
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DavidTheCryptic wrote:
now why cant we all be like this and learn to respect each other and their opinions. this is a very mature and rare thing.


u guys r dum.... no im totally just kidding... im glad everyone respects eachothers opinions... but i would like to verse my own...

Magicians have spent countless hours in front of mirrors, perfecting our effects... making every little angle beautiful... but using camera tricks completely taints the art of magic... whys is producing a coin from someones ear cool when that guy on tv can make a series out of doing anything he can think of... whats to keep him from raising the dead, cloning himself, and making his girlfriend hotter? he can do that with simple camera editting... we might maybe maybe be able to do that with numerous creative minds and years of practice... we find possible ways to do the impossible... angel doesnt do that... he cheats... theres nothing magical about camera editing... Blaine isnt as "cool" as angel now bc blaine doesnt cheat... i dont have proof of this, but im pretty darn sure hes legit... and this is why hes still my fav... im done with my rant


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 1:57 am 
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the only acts i could POSSibly think as camera tricks are his walking on water and his walking up/down a building, even though both of these are done surrounded but hey all things r possible.
and in case ur wondering his normal levitation onto chairs and up elevators arent camera tricks i have the dvd


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 3:58 pm 
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alienc23 wrote:
the only acts I could POSSibly think as camera tricks are his walking on water and his walking up/down a building, even though both of these are done surrounded but hey all things r possible.
and in case ur wondering his normal levitation onto chairs and up elevators arent camera tricks I have the dvd


And how about the building float? The puddle trick? The manhole trick? There are others that dont even need camera tricks, but actually rely on slight of hand, but he still edits it, just to make it easier for himself. As for tricks that he does surrounded, stooges, duh. He uses stooges even more than he uses camera tricks.

-Oztheozzie


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 11:27 pm 
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Okay, you again. :lol: :D This'll be fun. First of all I do not support "tv magicians", I only watch them for entertainment. And btw, nickedge, you're just encouraging more arguement about the subject but oh well. Now to go into my arguement with facts. Okay, Criss Angel does entertain people because he's a t.v. magician. It's obvious he uses stooges (for example, in the levitation and window penetration, he had stooges in the back to enhance the illusion) but not camera tricks, only camera jumps which is to fit all of his effects into a 22 minute show. He does not do fake magic because there is no such thing as "fake magic". Magic is an illusion and cannot be cheated because it is still an illusion. Criss Angel does however stain the art of magic but only to some extent but only to enhance his illusions (camera jumps, stooges), never to create them. Yes, Criss Angel's show is entertainment but he himself is a magician. Realize the difference. A football player using steroids cannot be compared to Criss Angel because the football player is cheating but does not entertain nor is a magician. There is a difference because you can cheat at football but you can't cheat at illusion because again illusion is the wonder that happens in the spectators' minds whichever way it is put there and football on the other hand is something that you yourself do. The spectators have the wonder and you are just there to realize it for them. It may sound cheesy but that's what it is. If you need an example as proof, just think about you doing magic in the mirror to yourself. Is that magic? No. There is nobody to feel wonder or mystery. You yourself may feel entertainment but that's not magic. It's just you having fun practicing. Also, back to the camera "editing", you can actually find exposure in "antique" principles which is of course where Criss comes up with his new effects. He actually hints that often by recognizing past magicians. That and the entertainment is the only respect I have for him. I don't really like him as a person but hey, who does? Oh and btw, in real life you accuse people after you have exact proof. It's not, you accuse people if there is no proof of them not doing what is accused. Confusing, :? but it makes sense.
If you want to argue or oppose, feel free to do so. :D


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 11:35 pm 
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oztheozzie wrote:
alienc23 wrote:
the only acts I could POSSibly think as camera tricks are his walking on water and his walking up/down a building, even though both of these are done surrounded but hey all things r possible.
and in case ur wondering his normal levitation onto chairs and up elevators arent camera tricks I have the dvd


And how about the building float? The puddle trick? The manhole trick? There are others that dont even need camera tricks, but actually rely on slight of hand, but he still edits it, just to make it easier for himself. As for tricks that he does surrounded, stooges, duh. He uses stooges even more than he uses camera tricks.

-Oztheozzie
In case you don't read everything I just posted, Criss Angel is a real life magician who gets awards for his magic. He performs them real life (live) with his camera crew and then cuts them to fit into the show, taking the most important parts, and if you ever do that, you'll see that it'll enhance the illusion for you too. For example, demo videos only take the most important parts to get to the point. In the demo video case, the process of changing it into a "viewable" format for viewers makes it even more deceptive because they have even less time to squeeze everything in.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 11:38 pm 
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YummyPie wrote:
oztheozzie wrote:
alienc23 wrote:
the only acts I could POSSibly think as camera tricks are his walking on water and his walking up/down a building, even though both of these are done surrounded but hey all things r possible.
and in case ur wondering his normal levitation onto chairs and up elevators arent camera tricks I have the dvd


And how about the building float? The puddle trick? The manhole trick? There are others that dont even need camera tricks, but actually rely on slight of hand, but he still edits it, just to make it easier for himself. As for tricks that he does surrounded, stooges, duh. He uses stooges even more than he uses camera tricks.

-Oztheozzie
In case you don't read everything I just posted, Criss Angel is a real life magician who gets awards for his magic. He performs them real life (live) with his camera crew and then cuts them to fit into the show, taking the most important parts, and if you ever do that, you'll see that it'll enhance the illusion for you too. For example, demo videos only take the most important parts to get to the point. In the demo video case, the process of changing it into a "viewable" format for viewers makes it even more deceptive because they have even less time to squeeze everything in.


I knwo that, and I dont care for thsoe edits. What I care about is when he use camera tricks to achieve effects that are impossible otherwise (or at least for him).


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 11:49 pm 
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YummyPie wrote:
Okay, you again. :lol: :D This'll be fun. First of all I do not support "tv magicians", I only watch them for entertainment. And btw, nickedge, you're just encouraging more arguement about the subject but oh well. Now to go into my arguement with facts. Okay, Criss Angel does entertain people because he's a t.v. magician. It's obvious he uses stooges (for example, in the levitation and window penetration, he had stooges in the back to enhance the illusion) but not camera tricks, only camera jumps which is to fit all of his effects into a 22 minute show. He does not do fake magic because there is no such thing as "fake magic". Magic is an illusion and cannot be cheated because it is still an illusion. Criss Angel does however stain the art of magic but only to some extent but only to enhance his illusions (camera jumps, stooges), never to create them. Yes, Criss Angel's show is entertainment but he himself is a magician. Realize the difference. A football player using steroids cannot be compared to Criss Angel because the football player is cheating but does not entertain nor is a magician. There is a difference because you can cheat at football but you can't cheat at illusion because again illusion is the wonder that happens in the spectators' minds whichever way it is put there and football on the other hand is something that you yourself do. The spectators have the wonder and you are just there to realize it for them. It may sound cheesy but that's what it is. If you need an example as proof, just think about you doing magic in the mirror to yourself. Is that magic? No. There is nobody to feel wonder or mystery. You yourself may feel entertainment but that's not magic. It's just you having fun practicing. Also, back to the camera "editing", you can actually find exposure in "antique" principles which is of course where Criss comes up with his new effects. He actually hints that often by recognizing past magicians. That and the entertainment is the only respect I have for him. I don't really like him as a person but hey, who does? Oh and btw, in real life you accuse people after you have exact proof. It's not, you accuse people if there is no proof of them not doing what is accused. Confusing, :? but it makes sense.
If you want to argue or oppose, feel free to do so. :D


I don't care for editing when it is to protect a secret or to meet time contraints. I care for camera tricks that are used to achieve effects that are not posible otherwise. A football player is cheating when he uses steroids, why isn't a magician cheating when he is using camera tricks? When a magician use camera tricks, he makes specs wonder, which is the whole point of magic, I understand that. But it is supposed to be done by an illusion, not an illusion of an illusion. Is there proof that Elvis is dead? Did OJ kill his wife? There is no proof. But we all assume it because it is obvious.

If you want to argue or oppose, please hesitate to do so. You seem like you enjoy argueing with people, I don't, so please leave me be.

-Tony


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 12:16 am 
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Well, you seem to always be posting in every Criss Angel forum and I'd like to prove you wrong (not "I want to bother you and argue). I said that there is no such thing as and illusion of an illusion or cheating magic because illusion is what the spectators think, not what you do. You can assume it because it is obvious but you can't accuse because you don't know exactly what is obvious. You keep saying he uses camera tricks but he doesn't. People only say that because they don't know how illusions are done but I don't see people accusing certain products of using camera tricks in their video demos. When you chop a performance up and take only the major parts of it, how are you supposed to find a method? So people just turn to the "good ol'" camera trick accusation. This process of cutting is necessary to create a tv show, it's a typical process for any television series. When you look at the episode, you'll be saying "camera tricks" but he performs it live. You're not even supposed to be trying to figure out the methods. That's the wrong attitude and approach to magic.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 1:01 am 
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YummyPie wrote:
Well, you seem to always be posting in every Criss Angel forum and I'd like to prove you wrong (not "I want to bother you and argue). I said that there is no such thing as and illusion of an illusion or cheating magic because illusion is what the spectators think, not what you do. You can assume it because it is obvious but you can't accuse because you don't know exactly what is obvious. You keep saying he uses camera tricks but he doesn't. People only say that because they don't know how illusions are done but I don't see people accusing certain products of using camera tricks in their video demos. When you chop a performance up and take only the major parts of it, how are you supposed to find a method? So people just turn to the "good ol'" camera trick accusation. This process of cutting is necessary to create a tv show, it's a typical process for any television series. When you look at the episode, you'll be saying "camera tricks" but he performs it live. You're not even supposed to be trying to figure out the methods. That's the wrong attitude and approach to magic.


Like already said twice before, I dont care for editing to meet time contriants or to protect a secret. This stuff about magic being in the spec's eyes is a bunch of bs, it just sounds like it makes sense, but isn't actually true. Your spec sees the effect, she hears the magician's presentation, she feels his presence. What is it do you mean magic is what your spec thinks? Magic is the spec interpreting an effect, then being amazed or mystified, and the spectator enjoying it, that's magic. Angel does this when he uses camera tricks, but he did it by cheating, he did not use an illusion to accomplish this, he used an illusion of an illusion. You can't say he doesn't use camera editing either, you dont know for sure if he uses them or not either. You say I don't know what is obvious, what makes you sure you know what's obvious.

The thing really is that I don't like Angel, and you do. You like him, so you naturally think of him in a good light, I naturally think of him in a bad light(did that make sense?). Anyways, you will always be positive when it comes to Angel, and I will always be negative. But we really can't be sure which is right and which is wrong. So I'm not going to argue about this anymore, you can say you won if you like, and if you want to continue to argue, go ahead, there will be no answer, at least not from me.

-Tony


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