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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 3:15 pm 
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LOL! I hope that was on purpose but I doubt it, and I am usually "right." Case closed.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 3:24 pm 
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Of course that was on purpose, I just wanted to see if you would respond with some good old fashioned Brad humor. I was "right". Let's end this now Brad, we are both adults, there is no reason to continue on acting like children. We have both made our cases, and I will no longer say anything disrespectful towards you, if you can agree to just let the people here have their conversations, without chiming in with an insult. I don't care if you insult Criss Angel or anyone not posting here, just let the people have their arguments, or discussions for that matter. If someone talks down on you, obviously retaliate, but let the kids here have some fun.

Deal?


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 3:40 pm 
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I tend to stick to the topic at hand, and what others consider bashing I simply consider criticism. I criticize Angel, and Angel lovers bash me for doing so. But that is what the forum is for, any and all discussion of Blaine or Angel. Good or bad. I have already said that I do not hate nor love Blaine or Angel, but I dislike Criss' TV show and his persona does not appeal to me. Call it whatever you want to call it. But fair enough, so as long no one bashes me for having an opinion based upon much experience.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 3:48 pm 
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cool, and once again, I am just doing this to clear my head, I apologize for anything that may or may not have offended you.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 3:52 pm 
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sirbrad wrote:
fallingblood wrote:
What are you talking about? He isn't riding on the coat tails of anyone. If you haven't noticed, many big names in magic are his friends, and respect him as a magician. Penn and Teller, Lance Burton, Johnny Thompson, Steve Shaw, Luke Jermay, and countless others. He made it for himself.



Criss rode them, now they are riding him. At least that is what they make it appear as though they are doing. Why any of them would even want to bother with Criss is beyond anyone. If not for Blaine, Criss would still be in his gothic thong doing stage magic and virtually unknown to the majority.

But he proved that even a bad TV show has enough entertainment value to still be viewed, and get some ratings. Even if it is between naps, or simply background noise. Would of, should of, could of, DIDN'T. Sorry but Blaine DID, Criss DIDN'T. So about all he can do is continue to emulate him in a bad way. The only difference is that he says every single time, "Now we never met correct? This is the first time I have ever seen you, blah blah blah," the check is in the mail etc.

Oh yeah, and Blaine can actually do close-up magic without a cut-shot at every single crucial move, because Blaine actually practices it. Like I said many times before, Criss needs to go back to the dark stages where he at least knows what he is doing, and stop his childish rivalry with Blaine. It only screams insecurity. Who gives a crap if Criss can outlast Blaine in a stunt? No one.

Blaine still did the whole "TV street magic" thing first, not Criss or anyone else. Get over it, and stop walking around like an idiot trying to be better at it than Blaine by using camera cuts. You are only fooling yourself, and probably not even laymen.


Are you serious? Come on. You are disrespecting some of the greats in magic. Why would Lance Burton need anything to do with Angel? He doesn't. Why would any of the other magicians that I mentioned need anything to do with Angel? They don't. The fact stands that Angel made it because of who he is, not who he knows. But if you want to believe that Angel made it because he knows all of these magicians, then go ahead, but the same thing can go for Blaine. It can be said that Blaine rode the coat tails of Tarquin Churchwell. And without Tarquin Churchwell, Blaine would be nothing. It's a stupid arguement, but it makes just as much sense as your arguement.

Your next paragraph is just babble. Blaine has nothing to do with Criss's success. Criss is a great magician, which explains why he has been awarded honors for his sucess and skill. It's also why he has a hit magic show, a highly recommened levitation, and why has a great live show as well.

I don't know what you are trying to say with the whole close-up magic stuff. Yes, Blaine can do close-up magic. So can Angel. If you have watched his show, you would see this. Personally, I much more amazed by Angel's close-up magic then by Blaine's, mainly because I don't like Blaine's effects. Too easy in my opinion. But he still performs them very nicely (minus his presentational skills).

Granted, Blaine may have been the first magician to do "Street Magic" on tv, but he wasn't the first to do it. Big deal he was the first on tv. It doesn't mean much. It's a great accomplishment for him. But there are also other magicians doing so, some with a lot better talent (for example, Cyril Takayama). The arguement that Angel only got famous is extremely stupid, because it's based in no logic what so ever. Magicians have been around for thousands of years. They have entertained audiences in different ways. Many performed on the streets. It was only time until it came to tv.

If you hate Criss so much, then stop wasting your time on him.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 4:24 pm 
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I have already debated all your questions and gripes a thousand times over, since you're new here you might want to go do some searching. Yes I do find it odd that some of the greats in magic would even be involved with Criss. Blaine does easy effects? As I have already discussed millions of times here, an effect's complexity does not define it's entertainment value or worth. That is the magician's job, and if you were one you would probably know that already.

That type of mindset is equivalent to relying on a self-working card trick, when in fact there is no such thing if you think about it. Criss has awards because he rubbed elbows with those who could help further his career and open doors. It has not as much to do with his skill as a magician. Just because Blaine, or any other magician for that matter decides not to perform for a panel of other magicians, or hang out with them, does that mean they are not great? Not at all.

Another thing I have already discussed many times, Blaine's lack of presentation IS his presentation. That of a drifting shaman, not a typical coats and tails one-prop-wonder with a lot of canned patter that sounds robotic like. Think a little outside the box as opposed to just surface arrangements. Also stop insinuating that I hate Criss, I already said I simply do not like his style or show; and no I will not go away with my opinion of him or it.

As meaningless as his awards are, he got them for a different kind of magic; not for a poor emulation of his real idol (Blaine) who he claims to despise. But in reality you can hear it in his voice every time he walks up to somebody on the street that he has watched Blaine literally thousands of times. Criss is also one of the biggest sell outs out there. He says "David who?" one week, then thanks him for his support during one of his stunts. He is all fine and dandy with Blaine so as long he is kissing his butt.

Also as meaningless as both of their stunts are, Blaine actually did his own and did not use a stunt double. But let's not get into that. I could go on, but I already said it all previously so there is no need.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 4:31 pm 
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magikrn wrote:
cool, and once again, I am just doing this to clear my head, I apologize for anything that may or may not have offended you.
Same here.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 5:15 pm 
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sirbrad wrote:
I have already debated all your questions and gripes a thousand times over, since you're new here you might want to go do some searching. Yes I do find it odd that some of the greats in magic would even be involved with Criss. Blaine does easy effects? As I have already discussed millions of times here, an effect's complexity does not define it's entertainment value or worth. That is the magician's job, and if you were one you would probably know that already.

That type of mindset is equivalent to relying on a self-working card trick, when in fact there is no such thing if you think about it. Criss has awards because he rubbed elbows with those who could help further his career and open doors. It has not as much to do with his skill as a magician. Just because Blaine, or any other magician for that matter decides not to perform for a panel of other magicians, or hang out with them, does that mean they are not great? Not at all.

Another thing I have already discussed many times, Blaine's lack of presentation IS his presentation. That of a drifting shaman, not a typical coats and tails one-prop-wonder with a lot of canned patter that sounds robotic like. Think a little outside the box as opposed to just surface arrangements. Also stop insinuating that I hate Criss, I already said I simply do not like his style or show; and no I will not go away with my opinion of him or it.

As meaningless as his awards are, he got them for a different kind of magic; not for a poor emulation of his real idol (Blaine) who he claims to despise. But in reality you can hear it in his voice every time he walks up to somebody on the street that he has watched Blaine literally thousands of times. Criss is also one of the biggest sell outs out there. He says "David who?" one week, then thanks him for his support during one of his stunts. He is all fine and dandy with Blaine so as long he is kissing his butt.

Also as meaningless as both of their stunts are, Blaine actually did his own and did not use a stunt double. But let's not get into that. I could go on, but I already said it all previously so there is no need.


I never said that him doing simple effects is bad. It just doesn't impress me. He peforms them really well, but I'm not impressed. I did like his card throwing abilities though. And I like the act he did when he dressed up as Tarquo the Great. But for the most part, I'm not impressed by him. Most of the time I'm not impressed by Angel either, especially recently. I would rather watch Cyril Takayama.

And I am a magician. I do magic for a living. Right now just at resturuants. But I'm putting on my first live show in December, a show for charity. And I know that it doesn't matter how hard the effect is to accomplish. The Ambitious Card routine is very easy to do, yet it gets some amazing reactions. I'm just not enteratined by Blaine. No offense to him.

Criss is a good magician. If you don't like what he does, that's fine. It doesn't make him any less of a magician. He has the skill. His presentation lacks sometimes, and his directing skills sucks (which really doesn't benefit his show at all). But he still has the skill. And Blaine does hang out with other magicians. He did hang out with Tarquin Churchwell. He has hung out with Paul Harris. And he says a good friend of his is Uri Geller (who I consider to be a magician, even though an unethical one).

I never said anything was wrong with Blaine's presentational skills. I just said I don't like them. It works for him, personally, I think it makes him sound mentally incompetent. But whatever works. It's just an opinion.

Angel doesn't claim to dispise Blaine. He says that there is no rivalry. I posted a link to an article about the whole "rivalry" in another thread. Criss respects Blaine. And I believe it's true that Blaine also respects Criss. The only rivalry is between their fans.

And even though Angel didn't get the awards for his street work, the fact is still that he got them. He has entertained millions of people. Before he was doing his show, he did a live show, that had great turn outs. He has the skills as a magician. You may not like his show, or his presentation, but that doesn't mean he isn't a good magician.

For the stunt double thing, many have claimed that Blaine has also used stunt doubles, especially for his Frozen in Time stunt. I believe neither one of them need to though.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 5:26 pm 
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he did use a stunt double for frozen in time, the masked magician revealed how he did it. I personally like both shows, Blaines more than Criss's(<----like that Brad, I got it right). Anyway, this argument is going to go nowhere just like they always do. We should all find a way to coexist together, Blaine and Angel fans alike, or haters for that matter.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 8:08 pm 
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I lost, :( Oh well, at the time that I wrote that, I did not know that you already mentioned it. But I do believe I was the first to actually do a search on Cameraedit's posts. But either way, it doesn't matter.

-Tony


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 10:19 pm 
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Noone loses here Tony, you weren't trying to copy him and you also didn't know he wrote somethinng first. We are all winners here at penguin town :D :D


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 10:34 pm 
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lol haha penguin town where almost everyone hates someone :) that should be the slogan


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 7:14 am 
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An effect only looks easy when it is done flawlessly by a competent performer. That is the way it should be. It also appears easy when you have an insider knowledge of what is going on, nonetheless it still does not detract from what a layman will get out of it.

Also even from a technical standpoint which I have already stressed is irrelevant, Blaine does not exactly do only "easy" stuff. Push off doubles, Randy Holt's Curly Cue, Simple Switch, Shapeshifter, and the Hotshot Cut, to name only a few. Not easy to do well, and consistently without a lot of practice. He also does a very good one-handed riffle shuffle. But Blaine only does so much per special every 5 years, so we have not even seen a fraction of what he can do.

However Criss is getting the chance every single week and still coming up short as far as quality material. I think Criss' (<---- :wink: ) character was a lot worse on "Supernatural" when he had the longer hair, bad clothes, and over-dramatized acting. Some of all which he still has, but not nearly as bad as he was. However I thought his material was better back then. I think if Blaine had a weekly special we would see some great things from him, and I personally love the fact that he is staying true to the art by doing legitimate magic that you usually can buy for a reasonable price at any dealer.

This actually gets more people involved in the art, and Blaine is still why the majority of members are at this forum. People motivated by Angel have been showing up within the last year or so, a new generation so to speak; and that is where the confliction lies. Most want to pick one or the other, but personally I see no comparison really. It just seems to me that Criss is trying to cover up for lack of close-up skill with bad camera work, and hoping that not many will notice. Probably laymen never will notice, but magicians are going to be watching as well.

So he is going to be discredited by working professionals for that, regardless of how small that particular fan base is. If you want proof just go to the Cafe'. Personally I find it far more impressive for a guy like Blaine to go out and do real magic with no cut-shots. I would not mind the occasional camera mishap, but Criss was cutting away, and jump-cutting EVERY single time on every show that a sleight was involved. That to me is unacceptable.

Blaine's magic is good enough to stand on camera, and to repeated viewings. To me that is remarkable. He is not insecure about his handlings because it is obvious he put the work in. That being said, Blaine is not perfect either. But I respect him a lot more for staying true to the course from a magician's standpoint. He just needs to actually do more shows.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 7:37 am 
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LOL, I did put an extra S in there didn't I. I was winking at the than I put in.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 8:10 am 
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Yes you got it right, very nice. I also went easy on you and did not say anything about forgetting the ' in "Blaine's." :P


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