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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 12:04 pm 
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I will say I'm sorry If I've broken any rules with my post.
My intent was to discuss camera work... not ruin an effect.
I'm sorry again.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 12:35 am 
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It did look like a camera trick to me at first and it could be, but I think I know a way that the illusion could be accomplished the way it was shown with the exception that the only people in the pool would be in on the trick. And it would be possible to have someone move around you in a circle and have someone else swim under you, but not at the same time. I might look into getting what I would need and try it for myself. It probably would just end up not working for some reason but it wouldn't hurt to try it. If you guys saw people moving great distances or from one side of criss to the other side of him then I'll agree it was probably only a camera trick. The next time I watch it I'll watch how people move around.


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 Post subject: i think i know how...
PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 9:58 pm 
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Location: Id tell you but it changes whenever I move
you know, i watched this with my dad, and we both think we know how he did it.....

he definitely had stooges. i would probably be more amazed at somebody walking on water while i swam under him than that girl was...

he was walking on supports. look at the distance of his strides. they were set at intervals, so people could go in front of, behind, and under him as he walked...

two more small things.... he kicked his shoes to the side, so they wouldnt land on the supports and ruin the trick..... at the end, he doesnt step on the water that last time because, if im right, there was no support there for him to step on


sorry if i broke the rules by spoiling this, but you guys were driving me crazy with your ideas (no offense)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 10:21 pm 
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I would watch what you say for exposure, and I think you're a little off, but what I'm thinking is only a little different. Also, he was standing when the person went under him, they didn't swim under him inbetween his steps. Its unlikely he would just have things sticking up to step on cause if he slipped he could get injured really bad or possibly impaled, so thats not likely. And I didn't see any crazy ideas on here, they all seemed ok to me, but there were only like one or two or three at the most anyway.

But yeah, watch what you say as far as possible methods for exposure or you could get banned, and its very low to expose stuff.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 6:09 am 
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Well I doubt hes actually walking on water, a few ideas come to mind, but would cost alot of money to create it.


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 Post subject: It was setup
PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 10:34 am 
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I think it was setup because a lot of Criss Angel's tricks are staged tricks


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 10:50 pm 
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everyone just watch it and think about it before you watch it ok. I normally don't get all mad about people trying to expose tricks but this is one that only the people who can figure it out should know. There is a dead give away to how it is done on mindfreak, you can watch it again and again, the giveaway is there, it tells exactly what the prop was and all. Everything. And I doubt it is that expensive. Right now I am starting on a tape of me doing some of my tricks but since you guys are saying its not possible or he is walking on top of posts and stuff like that I might try it and film me doing it. For those who say it had to be a camera trick, I'm sorry, angel uses way too much editing, but there are way too many ways too walk on water for it too be faked and there is something that gives away the method so much so that I can't believe he didn't change it because I would have. And no, he did not use one giant sheet of glass with a crapload of editing and he didn't step from one post to another post that could stab into him if his wet foot slipped off one of the posts.

And for the really smart person who would say this: No, he can't really walk on water cause I know someone would say that after reading what I just said.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 11:22 pm 
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My bad for sounding rude I was just getting frustrated with people trying to expose a trick like that but still being off anyway. I didn't mean to come off rude but that kinda did.


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 Post subject: Re: It was setup
PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 2:45 am 
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djowharzadeh wrote:
I think it was setup because a lot of Criss Angel's tricks are staged tricks


Althought most magic is staged someway, I know what you mean...

His Deja Vu (the one where he transports people down the hall), the one where he went through the store glass window, and the one where he pulled the girl apart in the park (just to name 3 for now) were all clearly use of staged 'viewers'.

If he is going to have people pose as average passerbys (a clear lie in all 3 aforementioned tricks) when they aren't, then he loses all credability. Anyone can do that, without the least bit of magical training.

I will not go into details as to how these tricks worked to to not reveal "the secret", but I will say everyone who participated were staged people. Given his tricks would be incredibly impressive had he not had to do it in a 100% controlled environment, it's quite a shame that he would resort to that kind of junk. If you have to hire someone to ooooo and aaaaa at your tricks, then quite frankly, you don't deserve to even be considered a magician because you have no skills whatsoever.

ANYONE can hire some friends and tell them how and when to react. Sorry, but that is not magic. If you can pull off a miracle trick in front of me, then that is considered magic. But the use of camera edits and positioned "bystanders" is a weak way to make a name for yourself :evil:

The amount of times he has used pre-positioned actors has caused him to lose all credability as a magician :!:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 11:10 am 
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so then what your saying is, that anyone who uses an assistant to make her move from one box to another has no credibilty. any type of magic that leaves people wondering what happened is, in my opinion, magic. no matter if he uses "stooges" or not. stooges are a part of magic whether you like it or not. many if not all illusions you some sort of setup or assistants(stooges). one of my favorite tricks to do is black magic, where you leave the room and then someone picks an item in the room, and someone starts naming stuff off and then you pick the correct item. that uses an assistant that noone is aware of. but that must not make it a good effect then because i didnt do it on my own. sorry but assistants are used, you just have to learn to live with it.


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 Post subject: Re: hey
PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 11:15 am 
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arenzana wrote:
hey dont give away secrets I just found out you shouldnt or theorys.

It's called exposure. :wink:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 4:53 pm 
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magikrn wrote:
so then what your saying is, that anyone who uses an assistant to make her move from one box to another has no credibilty. any type of magic that leaves people wondering what happened is, in my opinion, magic. no matter if he uses "stooges" or not. stooges are a part of magic whether you like it or not. many if not all illusions you some sort of setup or assistants(stooges). one of my favorite tricks to do is black magic, where you leave the room and then someone picks an item in the room, and someone starts naming stuff off and then you pick the correct item. that uses an assistant that noone is aware of. but that must not make it a good effect then because I didnt do it on my own. sorry but assistants are used, you just have to learn to live with it.


Like I explicity said at the very beginning of my post, all magic is staged in one way or another whether with angles, gimmicks, sleights, etc. and it always has been. But Criss gives the perception that the large amount of people he is performing in front of are just average passerbys, when in fact, they are not (alot of the time, but of course, not always). Some of the greatest tricks of all time were done when there were no such thing as video editing. If you can only create tricks of equal amusement with camera edits and placing 20 people who are all part of the rig while implying they are just average people, then you have no credability. When you see stuff on stage, you KNOW the assistants are there to assist the magician.

Don't get me wrong, some of his tricks are astonishing...but simply because he cut the camera and joined 2 footages together. That is nothing. It's not magic, and you don't gain credability.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 11:03 pm 
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Ok look I agree with you guys about not using assistants/actors/stooges too much, but I think you need to cut him some slack. Lets not forget Houdini became successful by performing metamorphisis, a trick that uses an assistant or actor. Some tricks "need" other people in a way. The trick where he went through the window could have been done without stooges although he used them anyway. I think that is wrong and using them too much. But the trick where he pulled a woman in half obviously needs a person to get pulled in half and I don't think he could pull us in half exactly. lol And the people watching were not stooges in my opinion. The walking on water was like that. It needed some people in the pool with him to show that a person could go under and around him. Without that the illusion is nothing. Also he gave a clue in what he said that they were stooges. He said something like I can't believe how many people came to watch me and got in the pool even as cold as it is. I can't remember his exact words but I think he said something like that implying that they were actors in the pool and a genuine audience outside the pool. However he does a lot of tricks that shouldn't have assistants/actors/stooges in them like his levitation. He used them purely and solely to enhance what was seen on tv by surrounding himself with them to make it appear as though you could watch it from any angle, which is not true. So it depends on the trick I think. Saying assistants are wrong isn't always true as far as I'm concerned.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 12:02 am 
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i completely agree, and with his levitation in the bar, whos to say the people in front didnt already work for him, doing behind the scenes stuff, they could have been but we dont know. so in reality they are assistants to enhance the effect on t.v. not payed actors.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 12:16 am 
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Yeah I agree I misworded that my bad. We have no way of knowing if he paid those people or if he was like "want to see how a great trick works?" and showed them how it worked and made them look like they were watching it on his show. But either way its the same to me, I disagree with putting people there solely to enhance the effect, but thats just me.


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