Where in there does it say stage illusions are grander than close up magic...he simply said some things angel do defy logic, therefor making them unbelievable. Take angels card through bus window (one of the few effects I will agree on camera trickery only beacause there were some placement problems) This is a card trick that defys logic is it not?

Oz, it's about time I see you in this topic, lol, I needed some support from all the Angel lovers on here. It seems we have two cameredits now, goldbomb, and the original cameraedit. I guess they're working side by side now in supporting Criss. And cameraedit, I definately do not feel decimated and flabbergasted by what Criss does, I know that he has tons of money and tons of actors and he can use those two at his disposal and I will never be able to do that, same as most people here. See, I practice sleight of hand and write my scripts for my shows, Criss on the other hand practices stuff with wires and edits and writes scripts for his actors, a little different. Now I must say, him doing his stage shows is all good, thats what magicians do. But I am much more amazed by David Blaine's sleight of hand with cards and coins then I am with this crap like floating from one building to another or appearing on top of a building, like ok, how much more crap can I take? Not too much more. Cameraedit, you're not a magician, you are a laymen that knows nothing, and only posts on this forum about Criss, so you wouldn't know how us working magicians feel. Man, I wish laymen would learn sometime.

vstrunk817

If any of what you were saying were true then you wouldn't see "MAGICIAN's" using all this
vitriol and unwarranted sarcasm against Angel, they most likely would look on, Know what the deal is and leave it at that.

But the motives for posting and getting upset and all this vitriol is a perfect example of people confused and decimated.

You make claim about 'Stooges' but now with Mindfreak running in the second season you should stop and wonder why would Criss hire the best consultants in the business if all he was doing were "Camera Edits and Stooges".

That seems like a pretty foolish waiste of money~!

He is using complex illusions, and is multi-talented in many ways. He is pushing the envelope of the art and is successful.

He wouldn't be on every week if all he was doing was Sleight of Hand, people (viewing home audience) wouldn't tune each week for that.

BTW again, he is signed for another year of Mindfreak, 10 years at the Luxor, and I can remember posts here that were prediciting his television demise!

Cameraedit, you're a laymen and I know that, and because of that I will let you keep talking all you want. There is obviously no use in trying to argue with you, so you and your non-magician self can keep saying all the stuff you want to. You don't know anything about performing real magic to real people so you wouldn't know.

But see I am not saying chriss doesnt use edits and stooges. Take music for example. Some have their voice changed by a computer to sound better, some do not. Those that have there voices changed sound horrible live. Yet they are usually more popular then those that are legit singers. Have you ever been to Angels live show. It is AMAZING! Some things that I said camera trick to on TV I saw only 15 ft from my face. The experience is absolutly unbelevable. Go to his live show and then talk to me...

I know his live show is good, then why does he have to use camera tricks and paid actors? Maybe it's because his magic, stage magic can not normally be done on the streets and most TV audiences prefer street maigc over stage magic. I agree, he's talented, I just wish he'd stop with the camera tricks and the bad actors crap and do some real magic. I didn't even take time to read all the crap that you and cameraedit wrote. It's always the same thing, he won magician of the year 3 times, he's great, you're just jealous, he doesn't use camera tricks, even if he does, it's ok because he is still fooling people....blah blah blah. I responded to those statements about a 1000 times, nobody ever reads it and all they do it repeat themselves again and again without ever remembering what I said before. I'm tired of this, if you want to worship a guy who claims to be a magcian, and yet use camera tricks and paid actors as much as he does (camera tricks, probably 30-45% of the time and paid actors, at least 50% of the time), then be my guest.

I just hope the rest of the magicians isn't going to follow in his footsteps and use these ways to accomplish their so called "illusions" or "magic", cause if that's where magic is headed, I would rather take up sewing or gardening, anything is better than this.

-Tony

Like I said about a thousand times before. The reasons are very simple. First, like i said many times before, he does legitamate magic on his shows, that's why those guys are there, to help create them. Second, it's for the credibility, it's for guys like you to use it to defend him, it's for people to go, hey, all those magicians help him, he must be doing real magic. There is already numerous evidence and proof that he uses paid actors, so shut it and realize the truth. Angel does use camera tricks, he does use paid actors, does Angel duck tape your eyes close all day until his show is on, and when it's not on, he tapes them shut again? How come you cant see anything for the way it is?

oztheozzie





I can't see anything for the way you think it is
Because you make little sense.

Your theory on Credibility via the Consultants

#1. You do realize the Consultants have a say? You do realize this? Don't you? What now....You think the Consultants have no brains and are NOW STOOGES! Only there to offer Criss Credibility!

So that is what you think!

You think the Consultants just wake up and say "hey I am going to be used so Criss can make himself a name"! "hey I am going to be used again and again so Criss can give himself credibilty while I loose mine, since its all about Camera Edits!"

What a silly theory you have. Not very believable and not very logical.

#2.Danny Cole has done conslutanting work for Criss and Cyril, it wasn't exactly well known and certainly wasn't a name dropping thing, so out the window with your IDEA of Credibilty from the consultants.

Now let us examine this more closely, since Criss is in his second year of Mindfreak and there are these claims about 'Stooges'.

Why don't you get more specific? Like exactly how many have been used?
How many tricks? And how exactly do you know this?

And again why would he even use Consultants if that is all he was going to do?

And let us not start with this 'he does so for his credibilty garbage' as if the consultants have NO SAY.

Try thinking, it helps.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wI8PC3hUIEc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPyvAtQYVok

They're not what he did on Mindfreak, but that's twice more they exposed the trick. It's like they feel obligated to make sure everyone in the world knows how to do the cups and balls.

*sigh*, again, can you please reread my what I write? I said already that he does legitamit magic on his show and that those magicians help create magic for him as well as find already existing effects for him to perform. I also never said that that is what he only does, so please read before you post.

The Emily actor, Angel goes up to her and ask for her name, she didn't say anything yet, Angel goes "Emily? Step right up." He does his levitation with people watching from the bad angles. The Asian girl from the walk on water effect has been in other effects. Many of the people watching his effects are the same. His hypnotize episode was filled with actors. And more.

Why don't you try thinking? It's not that hard, just clear away all the thoughts about Criss Angel and think about this. Don't hurt yourself.

oztheozzie

Your saying he does legitmate magic yet you speak a lot about his Camera Work and or Stooges.

So to clarify:

Name every single effect since Mindfreak 1 and 2 and tell me for each which edit are you talking about and out of the crowd exactly how many stooges per effect.

Keep in mind Mindfreak 1 on the DVD shows some of the tricks without edits, this due to the fact the show is 22 minutes and for the weekly show there are edits, some of those were cleared up.

I obviously expect the same from Mindfreak 2 dvd, and of course people who were claiming 'edits' will have to think of a new excuse.

So name all the effects from Mindfreak 1 until 2, every single trick and illusion(PLUS EDITS) and tell me if you think it is Camera aided and Stooged. IF Camera work, exactly what kind.
That way we have a 'trick by trick' anaylsis.

You just got done saying you dont read our posts...a little hipicritical arn't you?

Are you in love with Criss? He's a good magician, but it seems odd that someone would want to defende him that much.

Either that, or you work for him.

*sigh* again. I do know he does legitamate magic, it's just that his camera work and stoogery overshadows it.

Also, like I said before, remember that long conversation we had back in the "Asian Girl in Swimming Pool" thread? There is no way for me to tell you for sure how many times he use camera tricks and actors. But I do believe that he use cmaera tricks about 30-45% of the time.

Probably the latter, dont know for sure though.