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PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 8:24 am 
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fallingblood wrote:
The people were being filmed. If they called out and exposed what Criss was doing, they would look like nothing more then jackasses. Camera's have a great effect on people. Also, the people who would have had a good look of his levitation weren't that amazed. Sure they clapped, but not much else.

Everything that is being said about Criss can be said about Blaine. There are many people who hate Blaine just as much as you hate Criss. I have seen many magicians who claim that Blaine only does camera effects, that many of his stunts are done through camera effects (for example, both his Frozen in Time and Drowned Alive stunts have been passed off by many magicians as nothing more then camera effects). Just let it go already. Criss is a great magician if you like it or not. If he wasn't, he wouldn't have ever gotten the Magician of the Year.


Then I guess Angel isn't as good a magician as you think, a good magician whouldn't let people watch it from the bad angle. By the way, they looked quite amazed when he levitated, not just clapped, but open mouthes. He used actors, face it, you're worst than Cameraedit.

The thing about Blaine's stunts is that people can go see it the whole time, he had media coverage. And the stunts had physical and mental effects on Blaine.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 8:59 am 
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actually Tony, with the frozen in time stunt, the masked magician showed everyone how he did it, and blaine tried suing FOX for exposure, but lost. So that shows me that it was an illusion, not a stunt, or else Blaine wouldnt have cared. To go along with all the other things being discussed here, I dont care that he uses stooges, it is made for tv so it looks better if the reactions are better, also the camera tricks are only that tricks. its editing to make the effect shorter for t.v. He showed us his ring in ice trick, which everyone said was a camera trick, which he showed us unedited in one continuous shot. So the camera tricks arent really there to make the effect work, they are there for shortening the effect to fit into the show. now i know the building float was an edit, or else they would have shown us more then one angle(like show us what was behind him). as for the pics, he was paying homage in his opinion, if you saw the pics of him dressed like houdini in the cell and everything, then you know that houdini was his hero, he meant no disrespect, just looked a bit Edited dressed up like that.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 4:34 pm 
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oztheozzie wrote:
fallingblood wrote:
The people were being filmed. If they called out and exposed what Criss was doing, they would look like nothing more then jackasses. Camera's have a great effect on people. Also, the people who would have had a good look of his levitation weren't that amazed. Sure they clapped, but not much else.

Everything that is being said about Criss can be said about Blaine. There are many people who hate Blaine just as much as you hate Criss. I have seen many magicians who claim that Blaine only does camera effects, that many of his stunts are done through camera effects (for example, both his Frozen in Time and Drowned Alive stunts have been passed off by many magicians as nothing more then camera effects). Just let it go already. Criss is a great magician if you like it or not. If he wasn't, he wouldn't have ever gotten the Magician of the Year.


Then I guess Angel isn't as good a magician as you think, a good magician whouldn't let people watch it from the bad angle. By the way, they looked quite amazed when he levitated, not just clapped, but open mouthes. He used actors, face it, you're worst than Cameraedit.

The thing about Blaine's stunts is that people can go see it the whole time, he had media coverage. And the stunts had physical and mental effects on Blaine.


It's a complete waste of time to argue anything with you. You are so in love with Blaine that you hate everything about Criss. But when it all comes down to it, Criss is still a great magician, that's why he has been awarded magician of the year. So now I'm just going to stop because your love for Blaine is starting to sicken me.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 8:05 pm 
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I am in love with Blaine? I critisize him for his camera trick for his lev. You dont critisize Angel for anything when there is so much to critisize, yet you aren't in love with Angel?

Blaine was my inspiration to become a magician, he inspired a lot of people. He also inspired me to keep trying and never give up in anything I do with his endurance stunts. That is why I like him. I used to be a fan of Angel too, for like 2 weeks, then he started to piss me off with the cockiness and the camera edits and actors.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 8:27 pm 
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His love for blaine? LOL.........dude you're hilarious.

The only biased person here is you fallingblood. I'm tired of hearing delusional fanboys riding angel's nuts for everything. Im suprised ozzie hasnt just said "**** it. You're all idiots"

I wouldnt blame him for doing so.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 8:31 pm 
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Quote:
Im suprised ozzie hasnt just said "**** it. You're all idiots"

I wouldnt blame him for doing so.


I don't want to hurt their feelings. :wink:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 5:11 pm 
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I think alot of people could say what Angel does is camera tricks, simply because there are so many cutaways. (Granted, there are plenty of really good effects done by Criss that don't cut away, either.) But that shouldn't be why you assume that he uses stooges always, etc.

There are plenty of things Criss has done that had cutaways that are very possible to do live, the cutaways are there for a couple of good reasons:

1)There is usually more than one camera there at the time, you can clearly see other cameras in the shots. Actually, that is good, because the illusions are seen from more than just one angle all the time, adding to the "impossible" factor.

2)It keeps the pace of the show moving, as the music-video style cuts are more popular, and "edgy". You may not think so, but subtely it does add a more edgy feel to the show. Keep in mind that when the more impossible illusions are done, the camera usually never cuts away.

Here are great examples: Coin in Soda can. Now, we all know it's possible, since that very effect is for sale, so we don't question it. But if it hadn't been released, I garauntee you there would be debates about that as well. I mean, just look at that performance on the show. There are many camera cutaways. But because it is in fact possible, it isn't questioned.

The garbage can. In the show, there are cutaways during that perfomance, so it could be easily cast aside as fakery, but on his tv special, he does that same effect without camera cutaways.


Now, am I biased towards one or the other? No, but I'm pointing out how a person could jump to conclusions when the need not to.

Now I know Criss uses stooges, I'm not blind, but so does David. Whoever was defending the Angel levitation footage in the bar, I'm sorry, but you sound VERY fanboy-ish. It's obvious stooges were used, at least for that side of the bar where the angles are bad. At least admit when the other guy is right, or else you'll sound like you are as blind as they are to your preferred magician.

Criss' other levitations and building walks/floats etc. Do look fishy at times, I admit that. Do I think he doesn't deserve the class of magician-hood? Of course not, he's still fantastic. Am I a fan boy for saying that? Why should I be? It's obvious to anyone who isn't biased one way or the other that both men are very good at what they do.




David Blaine is also fantastic. He got be back into magic, because his magic was more accessible, it looked more possible, it looked more real, to be frank. His card magic, and parlor-style effects really sparked my interest to an all-time high. I started into magic because I first saw Angel, but Angel does do things that are more 'out there', so that right there proves their styles are totally different.

This is how Blaine is different: He uses one camera usually, so already that gets him out of the clear of having claimes made aginst his illusions as camera tricks, and since this debate has been very Blaine-friendly, I won't bother pointing out his good points, as I am more trying to show how both men have their faults.

Examples: Self-levitation. We know Blaine used camera fakery with that, wether it required stooges or not, I'm not sure, since you only see one person's shoulder during the really high levitation footage.

Healed and Sealed. This trick only appears to be impromtu. So why is it that when he uses the beer can on the "random" couple having a picnic, they seem so suprised? Now, before you light into me about how David could have easily done this or that, I am aware, but I am simply doing what you have done toward Angel's effects as well. I am pointing out obvious oddities in the performance.



Does Criss use more "fakery" than David? I would say yes, he does. He does more fakery, because his "fakery" is more broad. He does fakery on stage, on the street, on tv, and so on.

By fake, I mean magic. I mean illusion. That's still what it comes down to. All magic is fake. I have yet to hear a good argument against that truth. It's unavoidable, that is the truth, nobody can dispute that.

Now please, don't start making claims that I am an Angel fanboy, I am not, I am trying to show both sides, here. If my post seemed biased, please point out in a calm fasion where it seemed that way, and I will try to clear it up.

All the best,
--Kain


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 5:46 pm 
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You're not an Angel fanboy, I agree with a lot of your points.


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 Post subject: OMG!
PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 7:00 am 
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Hey, I'm a newbie here but not about magic, tricks, mentalism etc.
I have read a few dozen threads about Criss Angel here, and I don't understand what seems to be the problem. There are much more important things we could be worried about, debating over, and arguing about instead of magic and who's real or who's fake. I understand that some of you may be upset that magicians like Angel are using special effects and editing, but what would be the use of having the ability to use these special effects if we couldn't use them? I am pretty sure that every single person (except perhaps children under 7) know that alot of special effects used in movies and magic are not real. Many people (like my mom for example) know these illusions are just that, but they don't care. They enjoy the show, that's why it's called Entertainment and it's conveniently showed on A&E which is "Arts and Entertainment"!

Honestly, all the magic we have ever been taught or seen, is nothing more than an illusion, am I correct? The thing that I am understanding the problem is here, is that many of you believe that other magicians that did not have the ability to use special effects illusions back in the day, were somehow more real because they really had to work to pull their tricks off. Now a days, everyone has the ability to add more effects to their magic tricks, and how could you blame them for using them? I mean really, magic would have been played out along time ago if people didn't find a way to intrigue their audiences.

Criss Angel doesn't only use props, special effects, paid spectators etc., he also does alot of other amazing things that do not require any of those things. He is very good with card tricks and using his inner mind, intuition etc, which in itself is a type of magic, don't you think?

There are not many people out there that can tap into themsleves as well as Angel can, let alone those around him.

In summary, I just wanted to voice my opinion on this subject because it seems very childish to hate/love/critisize/worship etc upon anyone just because they do or don't float our boat, so to speak. Fine, if you don't like Angel then don't watch him, pretend he doesn't exsist. Get rid of your T.V if you have to, but don't begin a long drawn out argument with someone because they mentioned his name.

One day Criss Angel is going to fade like many other things, which then someone else is going to take over where he left off. In that time many things will have changed and updated like new special effects, and heck we may even be able to 3D televisions in the center of our living room where all our favorite Entertainment programs will be performed right in our home. Who knows, I just know that I enjoy Criss Angel's show regardless of how many props or special effects are being used.

One question before I close which I'm sure will begin a whole new topic but here I go;

Outside of the propped and staged magic tricks, the most intense magic I enjoy as Angel's shows are the ones where he litterally puts his life and health on the line. Like when he hung from hooks and flew over the mountains by a helicopter. Some would say he's crazy, and some would say "that's not magic", but in a sense it is. Think about it.

The power of your mind is the most magical of anything, and being able to control your mind and body are things that not many people know how to do. Heck, most of us can't even control our mouths to shut up!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 5:38 pm 
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i dont understand...its NOT okay for Angel to talk bad about Blaine once and a while, but its PERFECTLY okay for all of you to talk even worst about Angel 24/7 and devote your lives to it? what's the difference?


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 Post subject: TV magicians... sigh
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 4:59 am 
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:::I posted this in another forum, thought it may be more appropriate here:::

There is no doubt in my mind that Chris Angel is a good if not great magician. I will also admit that I do watch his show from time to time because I think it serves the non-magician public as good entertainment, and mostly to watch my friends squirm and scream “How did he do that!” as they turn to me like I‘m actually gonna answer them. I also believe that in many ways he makes it cool again to be a magician. With that being said... its unfortunate to see him use or rather misuse camera angles, staged locations, and obvious gaffed participants to enhance his magic to a phenomenal level. Please don’t get me wrong, I am not a "hater", long before he was even popular I credited him for being a good magician cuz I have seen his raw and off the cuff close-up material. I just think that there is a diffrence between magic and out right misleading. Now of course one would argue that magic is supposed to be misleading, even Houdini himself utilized a stooge or two, but sometimes using too many shortcuts can cut your magic short, especially your audience. Magical malpractice is becoming a very scary trend amongst television and even youtube magicians. As magicians we need to unite and sustain our credibility, for without it, we’re just another bad clown act at a kids birthday party. The two questions I would like all magicians (who use the television medium to elevate there career or reach there audience) to ask themselves is "How far will you bend the rules of magic to pull off the greatest magic trick? and what price will you audience pay because of it?"

With great respect for my fellow magicians,
Jules :cry:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 7:33 pm 
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its not the fact that he does use camera tricks stooges and all that junk. i could care less what or how he does his effects.

its just that, what starts the arguments, is people going around and saying that he doesnt use them at all. and they also pick an effect that does not use camera tricks or stooges that criss angel or whoever does, and theyre saying look u see hes not using camera tricks, it can be done live. even though we know for a fact that hes using camera tricks or stooges to make it look better than it is.


like for example. when criss does the levitation that he sells. just about everyone knows how its done on here but im not saying it because exposure. any way there is a bad angel, and they show people looking at him from the bad angle and being impressed and stuff.
who cares? i dont. BUT, all were trying to do is tell the people that are saying that he doesnt use camera tricks or stooges for that effect, that he is, and to stop going around saying stuff that aint true.

for example(a bit extreme of an extreme example but u get my point), say you start going around saying that the president of the usa is steve irwin. you go on the internet and make websites and flyers saying steve irwin is president. People are gonna think your stupid.

thats the same thing going on about criss angel and camera tricks and stuff. were not trying to prove a point were just trying to tell you that your spreading false info. at least thats what i try to do.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 8:28 pm 
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I am not as fond of Angel as I use to be. When his show first came out, and even before that, I liked him. Now his stunts and illusions are just becoming way to crazy. It seems like he runs out of ideas and just uses stupid ones. I do however, find some of his episodes entertaining. I do understand why people love and hate him. The thing with Houdini's grave completley pissed me off. Seriously, he is one of the most remembered magicians ever. He will never be forgoten. A ton of magicians look up to him and love his work. So angel has to go sun bath in a thong and take exotic pictures for his website. A total lack of disrespect.
-Nick


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 11:25 pm 
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umm, he wasn't in a thong at his grave, he was dressed like houdini dressed in the pictures at the jail. Get the facts straight, how do you sunbath in a jail cell?


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 12:11 am 
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magikrn wrote:
umm, he wasn't in a thong at his grave, he was dressed like houdini dressed in the pictures at the jail. Get the facts straight, how do you sunbath in a jail cell?


Shut up Eric, just when an ex-fan of Angel's disses him, you have to ruin it! JK :wink:

But it was still disgusting, thong or not. Take a look at em again, they're totally disresepctful.


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