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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 3:38 pm 
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I will agree with you that alot of the kids on here have no respect, and I found myself getting irritated at them, but I have never let myself go and started talking down on them the way you have. Maybe I haven't been here long enough to get that irritated, I don't know. I do respect that you are a professional magician, I don't respect the way you make it seem like you are the only one who matters.

As I said in my other response, I want to end this arguing between me and you, we are both adults and should act like it. I am sure I haven't, but if I offended you in any way, I apologize.


Eric


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 4:01 pm 
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Yes I have been through A LOT here, and a lot of frustration due to many different reasons. The truth behind it all is that I just hate to see this forum topple downhill as it always has, regardless of how much some people try to save it. So you just get to a boiling point after awhile. Most simply leave and never come back, but for me this was my first magic forum so it still holds a certain mystique, or appeal to me. I tried many times to make this forum better, and have given MANY suggestions to the admins over the years.

That is where the root of the problem lies, and has always lied; the admins. They usually just ignore everyone most of the time. So I pretty much gave up on that. But some of the stuff posted here is absolutely ridiculous, and at times requires an outrage. Things like a kid who is 14 coming out with a DVD, kids saying only "classy magicians" use one type of card brand, and everyone else uses the other, etc. But that is the least of it actually. If you actually believe that though you will stagnate your potential growth drastically.

But as I said, I tried many times to help make this place better but you just can't do it alone. So at times you just throw your hands up and say the heck with it. Nonetheless you still always hold a small amount of hope deep down. That is why I continue to come here. I just feel that some people do deserve to be chewed out. But sometimes that particular mentality can flood into your other posts as well.

Since you were respectful with your request, I will try to ease up a bit. I am actually not that hard to get along with, although on forums it may seem like it when someone annoys me. But maybe I am not annoyed, and am just having some fun. That is the beauty of forums.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 4:07 pm 
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I agree that this is the problem with the internet, you just can't show emotion, so people take what you say the way they want to. Most of the time, sarcasm is undetectable, and you seem like an a-hole.

I would like to make this place better too, as it is also my first magic forum.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 10:03 pm 
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born to perform.

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i am a "kiddy" and i dont consider my self pro or anything that was posted.....i took offence to that


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 10:20 pm 
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He wasn't refering to everyone here, relax.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 10:33 pm 
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born to perform.

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im koo i was just sayin not everone is like sirbad..


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 10:57 pm 
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tkies wrote:
im koo I was just sayin not everone is like sirbad..


Sirbrad, from what I have read, isn't a kid. From my understanding, he's atleast 20 years old.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 11:35 pm 
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I believe he is at least 30, he has been in magic for 20 years.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 12:16 am 
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I knew he was older. I thought I remebered him saying something about the fifties (making him nearly 60) but I'm pretty sure that was someone else. I just remembered him saying he was performing before David Blaine had his tv specials, so 30's is probably close.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 6:50 am 
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Yes I have been involved in magic for about 26 years, and performing professionally for almost 20. I think the main difference with me is that I come from the old school of nothing but books, and long hours of reading and meticulous practice. As opposed to today's DVD 'click and get' generation. Back when I was a kid all we had were black and white sketch catalogs with very brief product descriptions, and had to wait about 6-8 weeks for an order to arrive.

Yet you see kids complaining about free shipping that has not been delivered in 3 days yet. Those are just some of the conflicts I have with today's crop of spoiled brats. Granted not all are like this, and obviously I wasn't as a kid. I was very committed to being a pro one day, and knew from a very early age what I wanted to do with my life. I think very few ever decide that young and actually stick to it.

Not all are unappreciative here of the work involved, I simply speak in general from what I see posted here daily. But some do not even post at all so it is hard to gauge them. Some kids do most things right, I just think they are a minority group simply because there so much else to do at that age. I just think nowadays with all this new technology and ordering via a click of a button, many take it for granted and are very unappreciative. This is not limited to just kids either. But that is a whole other discussion.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 2:38 pm 
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Umm, sirbrad, theres nothing wrong with the "Click and get" method of learning. It's faster and we can actually see the stuff being done, just cause we're in the new age of technology doesn't mean it's the bad age for learning.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 3:06 pm 
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The problem I have with click and get learning is simple, watch youtube. There is hardly anyone on there that is original on it, they take what they learn from the dvd they learned the effect from and copied the patter, handling and everything. There is no standouts that show there videos, this is why most professionals dont post there own youtube performances, because they have worked hard and earned their dues and they don't want everyone knowing there secrets by watching the video over and over again to learn. Noone wants to take the time to learn their own routines and patter lines, they want it handed to them in a dvd. Yes you can learn from dvds but the feeling you get isn't the same as when you finally crack the code on that dusty old book in the closet.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 5:12 pm 
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There is plenty wrong with click and get, but I don't expect many from this generation of it to agree. Information that is so easily accessible is often abused, because no real work was put into obtaining that information. That is why it is quickly given up on sites like youtube as magickrn said.

Read a 500 page book and practice the material in it for about 10 years, then see how quickly you wish to type it all out and put it up for free on the net. Back in the day knowledge was earned, and there were rights of passage. That helped protect the art from today's thieves. The problem is not about how fast you are able to get something, but more so what is being done with that information that was so easily obtainable.

Click and get simply destroys many of the road blocks that protected the art from most of the vultures. But there is always someone who has to abuse a good thing. Now people just go after secrets for free on the net, and they do not respect them at all because they did not earn them, or pay hard earned money for them.

Same as doing shows for free, or tricks for friends. If you do something for free, people usually assume that is all it is worth. However paying audiences show a very different kind of decorum. Of course charity events and the like are an exception. Even though getting items fast is not the main problem, I still think the old way is better and develops a more protective and appreciative attitude.

Usually most things that are easily obtained are not really worth having anyway, and promote a lazy mindset probably in most. I love getting stuff quicker today, but I also have the old values instilled in me. It is always better to go from rags to riches than vice versa.


Last edited by sirbrad on Wed Aug 30, 2006 7:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 5:44 pm 
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Exactly, people don't come back from a Lance Burton show they just paid 100 dollars to see and immediately go on youtube to try to figure it out. The reason for this, they were entertained, not tricked. When you go up to someone at school and show them the new cool hot item on penguin without perfecting a presentation, all you did was trick that person, now they are going to go to youtube and try to figure out how you tricked them. Magic is all in the entertainment value, and you will recieve 1000 times the value from a book, than you will with a easy to learn from dvd.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 8:31 pm 
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SirBrad- I know we have argued before, but your last couple of posts, I completely agree with. I'm only 18, so I fit into the generation you were talking about. But when I started doing magic, I didn't have any money to buy all of the new effects, I had to go to libraries and find books on magic. Which proved very hard since there are very few books on magic in the libraries in my city. But I did find some old books (one that I like the most was written by Blackstone Jr. It also made me curious about the history of magic). I learned most of the stuff I know now, from books. Some of the stuff I have learned from books is amazing, and I know I will never find anywhere else. And I think that has really bettered me in the art.

It also annoys me when magicians try to find the easy way. I see so many young magicians just wanting to know the secret. They think they are the best thing that has ever happened to the magic world. Then when someone gives them a little criticism, they get angry and blow you off.

I respect the older magicians, who have really worked at the art, so much more then the younger magicians. I find talking or debating with them is a lot better too, because they have knowledge of the art. I personally think anyone going into magic, should have to learn the history of it.

But I do agree with everything you said in your last couple of posts.


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