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do youi think that criss angel suck's as a magician and he youses camera trick's and is not a real magician
yes 39%  39%  [ 25 ]
no 61%  61%  [ 39 ]
Total votes : 64
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 6:10 pm 
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And if I lock a topic, it's because I WANT to lock a topic. See how that goes. I'm the mod here. When we suggest searching and not cluttering up the forum with repeat topics, you may want to just shut up and listen instead of arguing.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 6:13 pm 
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exodus wrote:
And if I lock a topic, it's because I WANT to lock a topic. See how that goes. I'm the mod here. When we suggest searching and not cluttering up the forum with repeat topics, you may want to just shut up and listen instead of arguing.


sorry if i made you angry or some thing okay. but i youst want to know what people think's ok. every body can say what dey meen.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 7:13 pm 
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Not a problem. That's why I left the topic open in the first place.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 7:28 pm 
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thecooltonto wrote:
One reason I seriously doubt Angel is good at any close-up magic is because of his performance presentation when he does do close-up, which is unplanned and poor presentation. If you watch his close-up stuff he doesn't always know what he is even going to say next. But if you say you have seen him in person, not his stage show, that doesn't count for this, and he was good with sleights and cards then I will take your word for it. I just have my doubts because of three things that I have noticed, he is poor with his presentation because he doesn't always know what he is going to say next, he is not skilled at sleight of hand, and he implied that he hates card tricks whether he actually does or not.


You keep saying that, which has no real point. There is more to magic than cards. Just because he doesnt like cards doesnt mean he isnt good in magic.
And just about 99% of everything you and everyone else is basing your opinion on is his tv show. TV SHOW. of course he will use camera effects and what ever means it takes to ENTERTAIN. It is his show, let him do what he wants, and realize some of it is real. He has done more for magic than many people will ever do.
And knowing what your going to say next is nothing important. Thats my style, or part of it. I wing alot of my patter, improvise. Of course some of it has a story, but even that changes show to show. I have never fully memorized a full patter.
And again all your seeing is his TV SHOW.

People judge too fast and too easily, and usually the judgement is wrong.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 5:06 am 
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I don't deny that Criss Angel is very talented, and I realise that in order to get someone who knows absolutely nothing about magic interested in it you have to do what Angel does - do completely mindblowing tricks, and sometimes reveal the occasional secret of a small trick. Plus he looks hip and cool in order to associate with the younger audience.

However, as a knowledgeable amateur/hobbyist (that's how I'd rank myself) I personally can't stand him. If I watch him do a trick I have no more respect for the art of magic afterwards as I did before. When I see him do something like levitating onto a wall, I think to myself, "Why are you doing that, other than to show off?". I then want to know what the secret is. If I can't reach a conclusion quickly my mind will settle on the idea that it used camera tricks or stooges (in order to "rebuild the boxes" according to AoA 1).

On the other hand, I was watching the classic video on YouTube of Channing Pollock producing doves and doing wonderful card manipulations. It was something about the way he was doing it that made me have so much respect for my art. In a way, he didn't appear to be doing anything more than showing off but I know that wasn't the case. Criss Angel was doing tricks; Channing pollock was doing magic.

If someone offered me the secret to Criss Angel's tricks I'd be willing to accept them. Of course I wouldn't buy them because I don't care that much about them, but if I came accross the solution for a small price I'd be tempted to buy it. Plus I'd feel no remose in broadcasting the secret all over the internet. On the other hand, if someone offered to sell me a booklet explaining Channing Pollock's routine, I don't think I'd ever buy it. I don't want to know how he does what he does, and that's the sign of a good magician. If I did get the secret, I'd guard it with my life. I'd store it in a box under lock and key, and make sure never to perform the trick until I knew I could do it perfectly.

Another drawback with Criss Angel's stuff is that since he gets people interested in magic, but not respecting magic, they buy up all these gimmicked tricks and DVDs, at random, not practising the tricks and expecting to be perfect at them in a few hours. And Penguin's advertising doesn't help (but of course Penguin's a vendor so they care about the number of sales - I'm not bashing Penguin).

So there you have it: my all round report on why I really don't care for Criss Angel.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 8:22 pm 
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Yeah I agree mostly with what you said lawboy, your opinion is real similar to mine about angel. And as for angel's remarks about card tricks on his show, well its true that its somewhat irrelevant to if he is a good magician or not, but it does relate to if he is good with cards or not, and that relates to him being a good magician because a good magician should also be a well rounded magician. I don't care too much for working with coins really, but if I ever have a chance to do something serious with my magic I will definately learn and practice coin tricks, and I'll try to be the best at them. However, that means I would perform them and perform them with pride. What angel does with most card tricks is not perform them, and then bash them instead. I just find it to be a little strange that a magician who was talented would bash something they would be able to do decently and have practiced at.

And angel plans his patter and movements on stage more so than any other magician there is probably because he is obsessed with that type of thing. He realizes how important it is to make your performance that much better, but he has very little experience performing closeup. So he also doesn't have patter planned out to go along with his magic, and certainly not anything to deal with a heckler if he ran into one, because its a lot easier to come up with some patter you plan on using everytime than to think of a way to deal with a heckler. So I just don't think he can do much that would be a very good performance in a closeup situation because stage, stooges, and edits is all that I have ever seen him do well.
And he is a good stage magician, def one of the best on stage. But thats all I give him.

And yeah, your right, all I have seen is what he has done on tv, but magic looks better on film than in real life usually so that doesn't really mean much unless he performs completely different on tv than in real life, which is somewhat unlikely, but possible.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 12:51 pm 
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yes i think he does use camera tricks sometimes and stooges but i dont have a problem with a couple of stooges in a crowd as long as the whole crowd isnt actors. but he still does some pretty cool trick without camera tricks.his coin matrix was good. his levitation is good.(the one hes selling) and his card tricks are cool. im pretty sure he doesnt use camera tricks on cards. so yes hes still a good magician but i would like him more if he didnt use camera tricks and NO im not jealous of criss angel


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 1:41 pm 
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DavidTheCryptic wrote:
Most of the people that dont like him are jelous. He has done more for magic than most of them ever will. He is a great performer and entertainer, which by the way is our job. He can do alot more than what he does on tv, but he rather be different in his show. I dont blame him.
Granted my friends dont believe ever thing they see him do, if they did I would be worried. But they are entertained, and thats what counts.


amen, a non hater and someone who tells it like it is.

with magic being a tough sell as it is, why ppl bash angel, someone who promotes the community, is beyond me.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 1:43 pm 
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Lawboy wrote:
When I see him do something like levitating onto a wall, I think to myself, "Why are you doing that, other than to show off?".


umm, you didn't really just ask why he was doing that. maybe b/c it is entertaining?

and deep down in everyone that can do something that others appreciate, do it for at least SOME self gratification. otherwise, what's the point of doing anything it all?


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 2:47 pm 
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CoryD218 wrote:
Lawboy wrote:
When I see him do something like levitating onto a wall, I think to myself, "Why are you doing that, other than to show off?".


umm, you didn't really just ask why he was doing that. maybe b/c it is entertaining?

and deep down in everyone that can do something that others appreciate, do it for at least SOME self gratification. otherwise, what's the point of doing anything it all?

Let me clarify: a lot of the magic that happens in the spectator's mind is due to implication. If a magician can shuffle a deck into order, it has strong implication that he could go into a casino, play poker and in shuffling the deck could order it so all the good cards go to him. That's interesting, and hence entertaining.

In the audience's mind one of the hardest things to make appear from a silk would be some sort of livestock, especially one that appears to move a lot. Therefore for Channing Pollock to produce a dove from thin air has heavy implication that he could produce anything if he wanted - money, cigarettes, or any sort of small luxury. That is very interesting.

Criss Angel levitates onto a wall. Where's the implication? The implication, if it existed, would be that if there was something on a high shelf he could probably reach it. [sarcasm]Wow! That's so impressive![/sarcasm] The thing is that a) It is clear from the footage that he is only able to levitate onto walls or up stairs that the average person could just step up onto; b) He shows no advantage for being able to levitate.

While I'm sure there are a number of people out there who look at him and go "Wow, next time I can't quite reach that tin of Baked Beans at the supermarket I wish I were him" but personally I look at him and go, "Meh! What was the point of that?"

There's my essay response, CoryD218.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 3:26 pm 
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Man I can't express how sick I am of hearing people say "oh people who don't like angel are just jealous of him." Let me make something clear:

I AM NOT JEALOUS OF A SPECIAL EFFECTS ARTIST, A CAMERA CREW, A DIRECTOR, OR CRISS ANGEL!!!!!
(because he is all of the preceding, and by director i mean he hires stooges)

So please, please people stop saying that, I feel that everyone who dislikes angel ---because of camera editing/trickery--- will agree with me when I say that we are sick of being accused of being jealous of him. We very much so are not jealous of him.


This is what I think it all comes down to, Angel couldn't do very much without a huge pile of money. Whatever he does requires money to be able to do it, as in a good bit more than what is usual, which means he can't do a lot with a little, which means he has little skill because he can't do a lot. Try to understand that ok people?

Please? Maybe??

(mostly don't say I'm jealous! lol)


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 3:40 pm 
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I know there's probably already a big arguement here, but I'm not gonna participate this time, or even take time to read it, I'm gettin tired of argueing.

I don't think Angel sucks and is a bad magician. I think he is quite talented actually, his levitation is a great trick and from what I've heard, his stage show is good. He also got his successful TV show, so hats off to him. But I am sure he uses alot of actors on his shows and also quite a bit of camera editing, which takes away alot from him. But no, he doesn't suck.

I still don't like him though.

-Tony


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 4:10 pm 
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Oztheozzie, I completely agree. If Angel is liked by enough people then he must be doing something right. The thing is that I personally can't stand him and I'm just justifying why.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 4:23 pm 
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Lawboy wrote:
In the audience's mind one of the hardest things to make appear from a silk would be some sort of livestock, especially one that appears to move a lot. Therefore for Channing Pollock to produce a dove from thin air has heavy implication that he could produce anything if he wanted - money, cigarettes, or any sort of small luxury. That is very interesting.


but the fact that chris can make himself float means he could probably make other things float. which means he could make the money that Channing Pollock produced float away from him, and float to Chris himself.

I mean, since we are speaking implicatively...


:lol:

::Edit::

and since when is a dove considered livestock? j/c...


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 4:42 pm 
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well criss is either impressing people on the street or in their couch. in the end, he is a magician. don't you think if he wasn't he wouldn't be friends with such other great magicians as: Lance Burton, Penn and Teller, Banacheck, Wayne Houchin, and many more.


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