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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 11:54 pm 
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How does one give evidence of Angels' camera tricks without revealing? Since we are all magicians here is it revealing to reveal to us? The 'Wall Walk' was done by making the floor look like the wall, and he walked on the floor, with the camera overhead, so it looked like he walked up a wall and seemed as if the shot were done from the side and below. This has been done by Hollywood for ages...in Superman, Batman, Flash Gordon, etc, movies going back to the silent era. It IS a camera trick, and could NOT be performed in life on stage, or in the open. A guy named Melliers did this sort of camera magic around 1890-1900, and was the first to do so. Then it was fresh, and new. After a hundred plus years of Hollywood types using it, the trick has lost its' shine. I could stand Angel dredging it up for the kiddee crowd, on TV, if he wasn't such an insufferable dink... acting like a spastic on acid, and projecting a Goth image which subtly glorifies drugs, and violence. Oh well...there is room for all in this racket...even for the Chris Angel types. I tolerate him, but don't expect me to hero worship him like so many eight year olds do.


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 Post subject: Re: Bollocks
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 6:27 pm 
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58gibson wrote:
In my opinion, people who say Criss Angel uses camera tricks are merely envious that Angel actually pulls this stuff off. They're angry that they cannot uncover his methods so they must find another means of explanation. If you can find cold hard evidence instead of "no one can really do that" or "it looks he is using tricks" than you are a better man than everyone else who states those quotes along with a myriad of others.


In my opinion anyone who spouts such nonsense as this, is completely ignorant to how even simple magic works, and is most likely a fanboy/layman. Having been involved in the art for almost 30 years I think I can tell what is a camera edit/stooged effect. I can also tell when Criss has to use a cutshot because he cannot pull off even a relatively simply sleight.

Criss' whole act revolves around the camera. It is real easy to slide a card up a mirror to have it change when the camera never pans "down." If you honestly believe Criss is walking walls, walking on water, ad disappearing from underneath a garbage can, and appearing on a roof, all live; I feel sorry for you. As a working professional of 20 years now it is VERY obvious to me what i a legitimate method, and what is simply TV BS. Criss is nothing to be envious of.

All he does is burden real-world entertainers by creating unrealistic expectations. Criss dos very little legitimate magic, and even then he needs the camera to back him up. But yeah we all just can't figure out how Criss is making a 10-year old turn 20, or making a doll come to life. It is also pretty amazing when Criss picks up a manhole lid, but has to walk away and get the camera off of it for about 10 seconds to get the hook, while we here a loud "thud," that he tries to talk over and he goes back to replace it. Yet his stooges, oops I mean audience, all claim what he just did was real.

We are just not that clever, and I am sure when the camera cuts to the audience at EVERY single crucial moment that a "move" is taking place, it is all purely coincidental. Three years of stunning coincidences. Now that is magic. How much more evidence do you really need? Anyone who thinks Criss uses legitimate methods should at least go buy Mark Wilson's book.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 12:41 am 
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It is "kind of" of camera trick, but I think this one is legitamate. It's really dealing with angles, and while I don't want to expose let me give you a hypothetical situation, and you figure it out from there. Go and grab one of those hot wheel cars from your kids room. Lambo is in your hand. Place it into a Tenkai, done. Just don't use a fire extinguisher on you hand before the latter ;.) Put this into a real world scenario with an over-impressed audience, and you got a good angular illusion, I guess.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 8:09 am 
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fallingblood wrote:
The only part I don't like about Criss using camera tricks is that he constantly states that he doesn't. I believe that crosses a line.


Can you really blame him? Magicians are liars by nature... Harry Lorayne always speaks of us as liars... We tell the spectator their card is lost when it isn't, we tell them we are shuffling the deck, when we aren't, we tell them we can read their minds, when we can't... If a spectator accuses you of not performing real magic, what do you do? Are you going to sit here and say, "Oh my, you caught me! I'm using a DL ;)". Of course not, it is a similar situation with Criss, he can't admit to using camera tricks, or he loses all credibility with all of his other trick that he performs...


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 11:34 am 
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There's a big difference between me and Criss. I don't pretend I can do magic for real. Criss does. And he does the impossible, by using cameras. He's not being the most responsible performer. He's basically got a cult like following. Many of these people believe that he can actually really do the stuff he claims. It's just irresponsible.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 2:10 pm 
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I would not mind Criss allowing the viewer to make the assessment whether or not his magic is real, if he actually did any legitimate magic. He doesn't however, because his ego is so over-inflated from all his lies that he is probably is scared to death that someone will look up his tricks on the internet, if he could even perform them. Then he would be exposed as the fraud he is, yet he talks about debunking others.

He used the camera SOLELY to create his magical illusions, which in my opinion makes him a hack. Anyone off the streets could do this, so why him? He loses a lot of credibility with real-world magicians, whether it matters or not is besides the point. I am sure many real-world performers are bitter that he makes millions for doing nothing, while they bust their butts day in and day out trying to make a living doing the hard stuff.

Personally I just Criss is a joke, and laugh whenever his name is brought up. Criss claims he can do ALL he does anywhere, and anytime. I would love to run into him someday and hear his excuse when he actually can't.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 9:34 pm 
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Location: President of the Criss Angel hate club (pm for registration)
*Looks at title*
*Laughs for about an hour*
*Gives poster a strange look*

Oh, you're serious? Oh... Okay then... *Runs away*


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 5:38 pm 
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What I find interesting is that whenever magicians can't figure something out, they all go "camera trick!" and write it off. How many of you are digital artists and know anything about these mythical "camera tricks" that let Angel do his stuff?

Fact is, the guy's on A&E, he's not pulling in the kind of money that will get you cinema special effects. EVEN THEN you can easily see the CG gloss in many hollywood films. Some of the shots he gets of him doing these things would be equally as hard to do in the software as it would be to do for real.

Factor in the shoddy cameras that the show is using and there's no way some of it is cg. I know we love to think everything's a camera trick and that it's easy to just punch up your magic with fx, but anyone who's touched After Effects or C4D will tell you it's not as easy as you all make it sound.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 5:40 pm 
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He is using camera ticks. There is a youtube explaining how he does his floating from one building to another. He even uses a computer to add in fake clouds.

Look at most of this TV tricks, they claim they are in one shot, yet the camera always cuts away before the reveal.

His tricks could never be done live.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 7:35 pm 
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ICanLevitate wrote:
What I find interesting is that whenever magicians can't figure something out, they all go "camera trick!" and write it off. How many of you are digital artists and know anything about these mythical "camera tricks" that let Angel do his stuff?

Fact is, the guy's on A&E, he's not pulling in the kind of money that will get you cinema special effects. EVEN THEN you can easily see the CG gloss in many hollywood films. Some of the shots he gets of him doing these things would be equally as hard to do in the software as it would be to do for real.

Factor in the shoddy cameras that the show is using and there's no way some of it is cg. I know we love to think everything's a camera trick and that it's easy to just punch up your magic with fx, but anyone who's touched After Effects or C4D will tell you it's not as easy as you all make it sound.


I do not refer to Angel using camera tricks as much as I refer to him using "cutshots" and "stooges," in which anyone could be on that show as opposed to him then. He needs to cut away to even pull off relatively easy sleight of hand, as we already seen how bad his palming was with the cell phone and poker chips. Or when he cuts away when his stooges do the dirty work off camera, (manhole and a thousand others) which only further proves he has no technical skill to speak of.

On camera he has this luxury of cheating to try and make himself look far better than he really is, which is actually the best illusion he does. However he places unrealistic expectations on real-world performers with all his BS fakery, when in reality he is nothing more than a hack with minimal skill if that.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 10:39 pm 
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davelanger wrote:
He is using camera ticks. There is a youtube explaining how he does his floating from one building to another. He even uses a computer to add in fake clouds. So someone on Youtube making a video makes it absolute proof that he uses camera tricks? I am not saying he doesn't because the float is obviously one, but seriously you can't believe everyone with photoshop.

Look at most of this TV tricks, they claim they are in one shot, yet the camera always cuts away before the reveal.

His tricks could never be done live. Sure they can, just not in the way he shows them on his show.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 12:35 am 
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magikrn wrote:
davelanger wrote:
He is using camera ticks. There is a youtube explaining how he does his floating from one building to another. He even uses a computer to add in fake clouds. So someone on Youtube making a video makes it absolute proof that he uses camera tricks? I am not saying he doesn't because the float is obviously one, but seriously you can't believe everyone with photoshop.

Look at most of this TV tricks, they claim they are in one shot, yet the camera always cuts away before the reveal.

His tricks could never be done live. Sure they can, just not in the way he shows them on his show.


His walking on water trick could not be done with non-plants because anyone in the pool would know how it’s done.

The trick where the girl disappears with the GIANT blanket. Again that could NEVER be done live because its obvious how the trick works. The camera never pans down.

The floating across the buildings, that was done with camera tricks.

His Sawing himself in half, again you can clear see where the camera was stopped and restarted. Another camera trick. That is cheating.

The girl that is ripped in half, they cut away right before they tear her in two, another camera trick.

Do I really need to go on? 90% of his tricks work just on TV because everyone is in on the trick.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 11:10 am 
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It could just be he's better than you.

Must've missed the auditions A&E had for people that couldn't actually do any illusions to pretend to be skilled magicians.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 11:27 am 
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davelanger wrote:

His walking on water trick could not be done with non-plants because anyone in the pool would know how it’s done.

The trick where the girl disappears with the GIANT blanket. Again that could NEVER be done live because its obvious how the trick works. The camera never pans down.

The floating across the buildings, that was done with camera tricks.

His Sawing himself in half, again you can clear see where the camera was stopped and restarted. Another camera trick. That is cheating.

The girl that is ripped in half, they cut away right before they tear her in two, another camera trick.

Do I really need to go on? 90% of his tricks work just on TV because everyone is in on the trick.

I'm not going to argue with you point by point, but several of the ones you mentioned required no camera trickery. He might have controlled his angles with camera placement rather than curtains, but that's part of the game.

Sometimes camera cuts are simply a substitute for visual or psychological misdirection. Remember the quote "The camera never blinks."


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 4:04 pm 
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Why does it matter if some of those illusions can't be performed live.

You know we aren't really magicians. We are actors playing the part of magicians.

Why does it matter if he uses camera tricks. Are you guys seriously that crazed about methods? I agree with DaveV though, and I think that camera tricks or camera manipulation is perfectly fine.


Garrett


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