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 Post subject: How "Real" are you?
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 2:14 am 
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Penguin

Joined: 07 May 2008
Posts: 42
I have a question...

I was thinking about 'honesty' and 'magic'. Now, I want to be honest and am...I find when people think the magic is "real" (I never SAY it is) they enjoy it way more.

Now Of course if they ask I won't say it is...

Before I ask my real question, How do you handle honest/magic together and how successful are you as a magician? (honestly, whether you are brand new or long time vet I'm interested, or even if you've been in it a long time and aren't getting any business, im interested) *Ps: I beleive you can be highly ethical and highly successful in anything and it's the way to do it*

Now When you do magic (formal or informal) (especially mentalism-ish stuff) How "real" do you make it seem? Do you try to imply that you REALLY have powers? (or outright say it even?) Or how do you approach the entire thing in general?

Deep questions I know, I'm expecting wordy answers....Thank you for your time to respond. I sincerely appreciate it. I believe it can be a help to magicians everywhere.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 1:29 pm 
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Joined: 24 Jun 2006
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I would consider myself pretty much in the middle in the pro field. I'm not really a vet, but I'm not new either. I've been performing quite successfully for 4 years now. So somewhere in the middle.

For honesty, I've made it point to be truthful with my audiences. I tell them repeatedly that I'm one of the most honest people they will meet as I will tell them when I'm lying. I like the phrase "an honest liar."

As for when I do mentalism, I state flatly out that what I'm doing is simply using the five known senses to create the illusion of a sixth. I say this at the beginning, as well as end. Throughout my act I also throw in a couple of jokes about how if I really had the powers, I wouldn't be there. I would be on a beach in the Caribbean.

In the end, I agree with you though. You can be highly ethical and highly successful at the same time. That's not to say that I haven't lied (honestly, when I first started off, I did exaggerate what I had done before. It's a common tactic in the entertainment business. However, I also always delivered on my word). But it is best to stick with honesty.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 1:56 pm 
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born to perform.

Joined: 10 Jun 2006
Posts: 4333
Location: Arlington, TX
I do weddings (business is picking up, yay Spring and Summer). My job is to entertain and a really mysterious, mystical kinda guy is a little out of place hopping tables there, IMHO.

I've tried to go Gregory Wilson style where the party is at my table, people look forward to my arrival at their little section, and they shower positive feedback on the host/hostess.

I can't be mysterious when the band's really loud and half the people are up dancing.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 7:32 pm 
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born to perform.

Joined: 14 Oct 2007
Posts: 946
I specifically say before my shows that 'there is no such thing as real magic, everything I do is a trick'. And to prove my point, I think I'm going to add a sort of prank, where everyone sees how easy it is for the magician to distort a person's perception of reality.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 9:02 pm 
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born to perform.

Joined: 18 Aug 2007
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Quote:
I rather take credit than the deck


Right out of showoff 3 :wink:

Anyways, I'm also about in the middle. I like how salmononius2 put it, "Showing everyone how easy it is to distort reality."


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 9:04 pm 
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born to perform.

Joined: 15 Aug 2007
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Location: Brooklyn NY
I rather not ruin that terrific feeling the spectators get. I don't want to ruin the moment, I ignore them instead. I just look at them for a bit. That answers the question the way they wanted to hear it.
BTW, I'm back. LOL


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 11:56 pm 
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born to perform.

Joined: 28 Jan 2009
Posts: 947
Location: Kettle Falls, WA
BrianationX wrote:
Im a 100% real
I rather take credit than the deck
I never say I do magic, That would be like lying
and BrianationX is an honest man


To me the ultimate sign of an ego maniac is when a person starts refering to themselves in the third person,

ie

"Karl Malone does what Karl Malone wants to do" is what Karl Malone said after a reporter asked him what he was going to do after the season was over.

As to the question, I've come to the conclusion that all magicians are pathelogical liars. Since we are making up stories to entertain, I guess it's ok. Personally, I think that magicians that try to pass things off as "REAL" (like Cris Angel) are NOT COOL!!! Don't make it into something it's not. Magic is entertainment.

Ted


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 1:19 am 
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born to perform.

Joined: 18 May 2006
Posts: 1784
Generally I don't say what it is that I do, because afterall what I really do is create illusion, and if my spectators understand how I create that illusion then it is no longer illusion to them.

So I try not to use words like magic, illusion, or trick when I perform, especially trick lol. (Because that makes the audience dislike you somewhat). I don't claim that I have superpowers or that I'm psychic either though.

Basically I try to balance it out so that people enjoy and interpret what I do how they best relate to it. If I find I must say I can do something in my presentation that isn't true, then I will probably also throw in a word like magic or mindreading somewhere that people know is not true. So it balances everything, but does not take my performance too far towards just being a puzzle to figure out like a "trick," but I am also not being a charlatan either.

I must admit though I have an opinion that there is a very small number of people out there that like believing in the idea of psychics that don't believe because they are decieved by frauds but just because they like the idea or something. So I don't think giving them what they want is a bad thing. BUT, I would hate to see someone perform mentalism and claim or imply to be psychic to a person like that, and then take something from them like money because its stealing.

In other words, I think a very, very small number of people want to believe what they know is probably a lie a psychic tells, because it entertains them, but since it is a lie if the "psychic" is taking money the psychic is stealing from them because they are only being given a lie in exchange for their money. And some entertainment, but they think its more than entertainment if they are to the point of giving money to the psychic.

Personally though if I saw a magician or mentalist perform as if they were the real thing, I probably wouldn't be too concerned about it because really the only people that would believe them are people that REALLY want to believe them, but like everyone else know its fake.

I would be concerned if I saw a magician or mentalist TRYING to get people to believe them, or get money from people. I think thats where the line is crossed because thats when people can get their life messed up some.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 9:17 am 
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born to perform.

Joined: 15 Aug 2007
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Location: Brooklyn NY
thecooltonto wrote:
I would be concerned if I saw a magician or mentalist TRYING to get people to believe them, or get money from people. I think thats where the line is crossed because thats when people can get their life messed up some.
Best argument here. Like I said, I make the spectator conclude what they want. They take that present home with them, they take it the way they want to. Give them a smirk, that's all, and they get exactly what they want to hear.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 3:12 pm 
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i feel that, as you talk about what you're going to do, it's better to say "something" and remaining vague. i.e. "i'm going to show you something you will remember forever" or anything like that. what i mean is: if you say trick, you're lessening it. if you say you have powers, you're scamming people. you say "something", it's in between the two, and as you do that you also create a little suspance ("what is something?")

also, you might consider doing some really obvious trick in a comedy way (like predicting a card with the 52-on-1 card), or even apparently messing up a trick (bill malone does a comedy rope routine in which the rope never restores). this way you get laughs and you can reduce tension about your supposed "power", by saying something like "if i was any good i wouldn't be here"


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 3:21 pm 
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Team Penguin

Joined: 03 Aug 2007
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Location: Continuously practicing, even as I type.
I don't make it a point to say whether my magic is real or not. I allow people to draw their own conclusions, and only correct someone if they aren't enjoying it (I.E. if it is someone who gets scared and thinks it is black magic).

But I have people who would swear that my stuff is real. I don't allow it to get to my head though.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 4:04 pm 
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Joined: 26 May 2009
Posts: 336
Magic should always be invited and never forced in my opinion. So when doing resteraunt walk around, is it possible to be invited? How do you make it to where people want you at their table?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 7:48 pm 
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Joined: 22 Jun 2007
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If you come across a heckler and they say magic isn't real simply pull out your best trick and say "Watch this and decide for yourself, if you can tell me how I do it then magic isn't real,but if you can't then magic is real." Fool the sh%t out of them and wait for them to make an idiot out of themselves by trying to recover with a bullsh%t explanation. Just make sure you don't mess up or you'll look like a dumba$$, and never ever directly claim you have powers. Let your magic speak for you.

A little more advice: Never say "I'm going to show you a trick, illusion, ect. Instead say let me show you something. That let's them question the reality of what you are showing them rather than you make the decision for them. Only say let me show you some magic if they have already made the decision that you are showing them magic. The spectators phsycolgical interpretation of what they see makes the magic seem real. You must make them believe, and the best way to do that is to use patter that is partially real and partially unreal. That way you create the possibility in their mind that maybe what they're seeing is somewhat possible so they can partially believe what you are doing. Then the belief only escalates from there.

I know it's complicated, but with good patter it works out automatically in the spectators mind.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 8:22 pm 
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taterhead wrote:
If you come across a heckler and they say magic isn't real simply pull out your best trick and say "Watch this and decide for yourself, if you can tell me how I do it then magic isn't real,but if you can't then magic is real." Fool the sh%t out of them and wait for them to make an idiot out of themselves by trying to recover with a bullsh%t explanation. Just make sure you don't mess up or you'll look like a dumba$$,


Either way you'll look like one; don't try to upstage hecklers.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 9:19 pm 
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So you suggest letting the heckler mess up your performance, rather than making them look dumb early so no one else listens to them.


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