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 Post subject: Complicated "Get Ready"'s
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 4:13 pm 
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So I have a few effects I am considering ruling out of my collection. To be more specific, Rizer and The Hawk. These are two very stunning effects that fit well in line with the kind of magic I like to show people. Extremely visual. I have been having some issues though with the "Get Ready". Honestly for these two effect, especially Rizer, the get ready is too complex and/or delicate. Without trying to get too spoilerish, I'd be fighting the clock to perform it promptly and hoping that I don't ruin the get ready between that time.

Does anyone have some useful advice? What do you do for an effect with a complex "Get Ready"? Would you say the audience reaction from these effects is really worth all the effort to craft a routine to fit these in (As closers). I'd hate to pass up on something I spent money on, but in this business that is kinda the risk you run.

-ArchAngel_G


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 Post subject: Re: Complicated "Get Ready"'s
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 5:45 pm 
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ArchAngel_G wrote:
So I have a few effects I am considering ruling out of my collection. To be more specific, Rizer and The Hawk. These are two very stunning effects that fit well in line with the kind of magic I like to show people. Extremely visual. I have been having some issues though with the "Get Ready". Honestly for these two effect, especially Rizer, the get ready is too complex and/or delicate. Without trying to get too spoilerish, I'd be fighting the clock to perform it promptly and hoping that I don't ruin the get ready between that time.

Does anyone have some useful advice? What do you do for an effect with a complex "Get Ready"? Would you say the audience reaction from these effects is really worth all the effort to craft a routine to fit these in (As closers). I'd hate to pass up on something I spent money on, but in this business that is kinda the risk you run.

-ArchAngel_G



Personally, I find Rizer to be way too impractical to ever use. All Rizer ends up being is a fancy way to reveal a card that takes a while to set up and seriously can irritate your skin. I would just try to think of different reveals. A card to box might be just as impressive, if not more impressive, than Rizer to a layman. Just make sure you consider the time and effort put into the effect compared to the reaction it gets.


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 Post subject: Re: Complicated "Get Ready"'s
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 6:25 pm 
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I don't have Rizer so I can't be specific but my personal thought is that any card reveal isn't worth if the "set up"(I think that is what you mean by get ready) is complicated or time consuming. Spectators freak for interesting card reveals anyways. I'm not sure you could really say that spectators are more impressed when a card pops up on your arm or when a bottle of Purell morphs into their selection. In this case I'm referring to Will Tsai's "Sanitized." So if you are looking for a card reveal I personally think one is as good as the next in terms of spectator impact. So from there, just go with the easiest one to perform.

If you really like Rizer I suggest you learn some verbal card forces and use it that way. At least then you wouldn't be maneuvering a deck around hoping bot to disturb the set up.


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 Post subject: Re: Complicated "Get Ready"'s
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 6:47 pm 
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How is manipulating the ink on your skin less impressive to a layperson than having the selection in the box? I think Rizer is easily the more impressive effect, but the set up really is inconvenient. So I was more wondering at what point do you sacrifice a strong effect because set up is too difficult to maintain?

I have plenty of ways I can reveal a card. It was the concept of altering the ink on my skin that I was more intruiged in. A good equivilent to this I think is perhaps moving someone's signature, as that is still altering permanent ink.

-ArchAngel_G


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 Post subject: Re: Complicated "Get Ready"'s
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 7:01 pm 
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The Hawk is very visual, but It's easy to see through, loud at times, and breaks occasionally. Rizer is pure junk in my opinion. You have to use it as an opener, you have limited motion before hand, your writing on your skin with a Sharpie, so you can do it once per arm every couple of weeks. I own both but use neither. I could see someone using the Hawk, but Rizer I would use in a demo reel and that's just about it :/


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 Post subject: Re: Complicated "Get Ready"'s
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 7:06 pm 
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tiggerkim wrote:
The Hawk is very visual, but It's easy to see through, loud at times, and breaks occasionally.

When it's well made these become less of a problem. Except for breaking.

I think I will be tossing out Rizer. Where can I learn other effects involving ink manipulation or moving signatures?

-ArchAngel_G


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 Post subject: Re: Complicated "Get Ready"'s
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 7:10 pm 
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ArchAngel_G wrote:
How is manipulating the ink on your skin less impressive to a layperson than having the selection in the box? I think Rizer is easily the more impressive effect, but the set up really is inconvenient. So I was more wondering at what point do you sacrifice a strong effect because set up is too difficult to maintain?

I have plenty of ways I can reveal a card. It was the concept of altering the ink on my skin that I was more intruiged in. A good equivilent to this I think is perhaps moving someone's signature, as that is still altering permanent ink.

-ArchAngel_G

Sanitized doesn't come out of a box. You point to the purell label on the bottle and it visually morphs into the name of their card. BTW, I do get great reactions pulling cards out of boxes and wallets. Anyways...I digress.

I think that YOU think that the card coming out of your arm is more impressive than a Purell label morphing into their selection. I have gotten fantastic reactions from Sanitized. At least as good as the reactions I have seen from people who perform Rizer. I do not perform Rizer so I can't say for sure? But really, when you got people freaking out screaming "OH MY GOD! How the BLEEP did you do that!" How do you really compare the two? One said "Oh my GOD!" and the other say "Oh MY god!" Seriously....how do you compare with any degree of accuracy one great reaction from another?

And Sanitized would fit your criteria, and then some, because you are altering a factory printed label and not just some ink you just wrote moments before.


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 Post subject: Re: Complicated "Get Ready"'s
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 7:18 pm 
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tiggerkim wrote:
The Hawk is very visual, but It's easy to see through, loud at times, and breaks occasionally. Rizer is pure junk in my opinion. You have to use it as an opener, you have limited motion before hand, your writing on your skin with a Sharpie, so you can do it once per arm every couple of weeks. I own both but use neither. I could see someone using the Hawk, but Rizer I would use in a demo reel and that's just about it :/

What I highlighted in red is the key weakness from what I am hearing. If Rizer works the way it should it is a stunning effect. How would you top it? Sounds like a good effect for someone who wants to walk up, do one effect, and move on. That can be fun to do but for practical purposes is useful for Youtube clips and really short performances(like the one Eric Ross did on Ellen) If you love the effect and want to use it consider using it for booking gigs. Tell a restaurant manager you would like to work their restaurant and if they ask you for an example of your work pull out the Rizer effect.


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 Post subject: Re: Complicated "Get Ready"'s
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 7:34 pm 
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eostresh wrote:
ArchAngel_G wrote:
How is manipulating the ink on your skin less impressive to a layperson than having the selection in the box? I think Rizer is easily the more impressive effect, but the set up really is inconvenient. So I was more wondering at what point do you sacrifice a strong effect because set up is too difficult to maintain?

I have plenty of ways I can reveal a card. It was the concept of altering the ink on my skin that I was more intruiged in. A good equivilent to this I think is perhaps moving someone's signature, as that is still altering permanent ink.

-ArchAngel_G

Sanitized doesn't come out of a box. You point to the purell label on the bottle and it visually morphs into the name of their card. BTW, I do get great reactions pulling cards out of boxes and wallets. Anyways...I digress.

I think that YOU think that the card coming out of your arm is more impressive than a Purell label morphing into their selection. I have gotten fantastic reactions from Sanitized. At least as good as the reactions I have seen from people who perform Rizer. I do not perform Rizer so I can't say for sure? But really, when you got people freaking out screaming "OH MY GOD! How the BLEEP did you do that!" How do you really compare the two? One said "Oh my GOD!" and the other say "Oh MY god!" Seriously....how do you compare with any degree of accuracy one great reaction from another?

And Sanitized would fit your criteria, and then some, because you are altering a factory printed label and not just some ink you just wrote moments before.

We will need to agree to disagree. Besides, I can say without a doubt that Sanitize doesn't fit my character/style/preference. If I were to reveal my card in an interesting way, I'd burn it into the table, or maybe have it on a pin that visually changes. Tons of possibilities. But as I tried to explain before it wasn't the reveal I was interested. It was the concept of, from the laypersons eyes, manipulation of permanent ink. So some signs a card and I change the card, but the signature stays. Or taking someone's signature off a card and onto a blank check made out to me.

One thing I had thought of doing with Rizer, which I theoretically still could do if I could bring myself to post videos, is instead of a card reveal work on an animation. Maybe an eye opening. So it looks like you draw an eye on your arm, wave your hand over it, and the eye is now open. This is also much more inline with my own style.

-ArchAngel_G


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 Post subject: Re: Complicated "Get Ready"'s
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 7:35 pm 
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eostresh wrote:
tiggerkim wrote:
The Hawk is very visual, but It's easy to see through, loud at times, and breaks occasionally. Rizer is pure junk in my opinion. You have to use it as an opener, you have limited motion before hand, your writing on your skin with a Sharpie, so you can do it once per arm every couple of weeks. I own both but use neither. I could see someone using the Hawk, but Rizer I would use in a demo reel and that's just about it :/

What I highlighted in red is the key weakness from what I am hearing. If Rizer works the way it should it is a stunning effect. How would you top it? Sounds like a good effect for someone who wants to walk up, do one effect, and move on. That can be fun to do but for practical purposes is useful for Youtube clips and really short performances(like the one Eric Ross did on Ellen) If you love the effect and want to use it consider using it for booking gigs. Tell a restaurant manager you would like to work their restaurant and if they ask you for an example of your work pull out the Rizer effect.

This actually isn't a bad idea.

-ArchAngel_G


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 Post subject: Re: Complicated "Get Ready"'s
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 7:56 pm 
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ArchAngel_G wrote:
We will need to agree to disagree. Besides, I can say without a doubt that Sanitize doesn't fit my character/style/preference. If I were to reveal my card in an interesting way, I'd burn it into the table, or maybe have it on a pin that visually changes. Tons of possibilities. But as I tried to explain before it wasn't the reveal I was interested. It was the concept of, from the laypersons eyes, manipulation of permanent ink. So some signs a card and I change the card, but the signature stays. Or taking someone's signature off a card and onto a blank check made out to me.

One thing I had thought of doing with Rizer, which I theoretically still could do if I could bring myself to post videos, is instead of a card reveal work on an animation. Maybe an eye opening. So it looks like you draw an eye on your arm, wave your hand over it, and the eye is now open. This is also much more inline with my own style.

-ArchAngel_G

That is fair...Not trying to be an egotistical jerk telling you not to use Rizer. They are different effects but I think the reaction from one is just as good as the reaction from another. That said, finding presentations that fit your personal style and presentation is important and if Rizer fits and Sanitized doesn't then so be it.

I like your idea of the opening eye, or manipulation of another image. With out fleshing anything out you could easily use it as an opener in that sense. You begin the performance with some patter about "opening your eyes to the possibility of magic." Show the closed eye that you drew and then show it visibly open. That is a "Wow!" kind of effect that will get peoples attention but because they are not invested in a card that they selected it plays as a "what will come next?" not a "how will you top that?"

You could also draw an "all seeing eye" from a dollar bill and perhaps reveal the serial number of their dollar bill using the Rizer methodology.

Just a few thoughts that might be able to alter it for an opener instead of a closer....


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 Post subject: Re: Complicated "Get Ready"'s
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 9:19 pm 
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ArchAngel_G wrote:
eostresh wrote:
ArchAngel_G wrote:
How is manipulating the ink on your skin less impressive to a layperson than having the selection in the box? I think Rizer is easily the more impressive effect, but the set up really is inconvenient. So I was more wondering at what point do you sacrifice a strong effect because set up is too difficult to maintain?

I have plenty of ways I can reveal a card. It was the concept of altering the ink on my skin that I was more intruiged in. A good equivilent to this I think is perhaps moving someone's signature, as that is still altering permanent ink.

-ArchAngel_G

Sanitized doesn't come out of a box. You point to the purell label on the bottle and it visually morphs into the name of their card. BTW, I do get great reactions pulling cards out of boxes and wallets. Anyways...I digress.

I think that YOU think that the card coming out of your arm is more impressive than a Purell label morphing into their selection. I have gotten fantastic reactions from Sanitized. At least as good as the reactions I have seen from people who perform Rizer. I do not perform Rizer so I can't say for sure? But really, when you got people freaking out screaming "OH MY GOD! How the BLEEP did you do that!" How do you really compare the two? One said "Oh my GOD!" and the other say "Oh MY god!" Seriously....how do you compare with any degree of accuracy one great reaction from another?

And Sanitized would fit your criteria, and then some, because you are altering a factory printed label and not just some ink you just wrote moments before.

We will need to agree to disagree. Besides, I can say without a doubt that Sanitize doesn't fit my character/style/preference. If I were to reveal my card in an interesting way, I'd burn it into the table, or maybe have it on a pin that visually changes. Tons of possibilities. But as I tried to explain before it wasn't the reveal I was interested. It was the concept of, from the laypersons eyes, manipulation of permanent ink. So some signs a card and I change the card, but the signature stays. Or taking someone's signature off a card and onto a blank check made out to me.

One thing I had thought of doing with Rizer, which I theoretically still could do if I could bring myself to post videos, is instead of a card reveal work on an animation. Maybe an eye opening. So it looks like you draw an eye on your arm, wave your hand over it, and the eye is now open. This is also much more inline with my own style.

-ArchAngel_G

I think that is a far more practical effect. If the eye is the correct size you could set it up in the middle of an act. Theoretically you could use the same eye multiple times, only drawing it the first time. If you were to want a card revelation you could put a card reveal in the eye. I might actually get my moneys worth out of the effect if you don't mind me using the eye idea. I can't believe how much more practical just that small change could potentially be.


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 Post subject: Re: Complicated "Get Ready"'s
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 11:36 pm 
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ArchAngel_G wrote:
tiggerkim wrote:
The Hawk is very visual, but It's easy to see through, loud at times, and breaks occasionally.

When it's well made these become less of a problem. Except for breaking.

I think I will be tossing out Rizer. Where can I learn other effects involving ink manipulation or moving signatures?

-ArchAngel_G


I think Richard Sanders' Identity is a good bet for this, where a bunch of scrawls on the back of a card first jumps to other cards and then, eventually, transforms into the spectator's name (that you supposedly don't know). Setup is easy, but the sequence of steps requires a bit of practice to really get down.

If that isn't your cup of tea, try something from Paul Harris. He has a ton of effects that uses the spectator's name/signature, ranging from Backlash (AoA 1) to another effect from AoA whose name eludes me for the moment and I shall just call "Giant Ego". Backlash has the spectator's signed card first jump from the deck to the pocket, and then back to the deck. As a kicker the spectator's signature transforms into your own signature, and you give it to them to keep as a souvenir. Codename "Giant Ego" on the other hand is where you make the spectator sign her name across the face of a card first, and then later make the entire deck - when spread - spell out of her name.


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 Post subject: Re: Complicated "Get Ready"'s
PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 8:36 am 
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tiggerkim wrote:
I might actually get my moneys worth out of the effect if you don't mind me using the eye idea. I can't believe how much more practical just that small change could potentially be.

Go ahead and use the idea. Honestly in the video I think this idea gets suggested. "Opening your eyes to the magic" is deffinately something that could fit my patter, and you're right, it's a pretty good opener. It is still a complicated set up.

-ArchAngel_G


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 Post subject: Re: Complicated "Get Ready"'s
PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 11:04 pm 
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Richard Sanders' Identity is a true worker. Practical, fairly easy to do and really astonishing.


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