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 Post subject: Hypnosis
PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 9:27 am 
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Should I get zap by Hon Wong or the manchurian approach?


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 Post subject: Re: Hypnosis
PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 10:08 am 
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I'm not sure if this belongs in the "cards" section, but I'll address the Manchurian Approach since I have experience with it.

The Manchurian Approach is basically a How-To Guide to Hypnosis and some tricks you can perform with it. It does not teach you fundamentals or theories, or anything to inspire creativity, but I think it is a pretty decent starting point.

One problem I had after purchasing the Manchurian Approach is practice. Hypnosis is hard to get a hold of if you don't have he ability to practice on anybody. So if you have a friend that's into magic or willing to be formally induced into a hypnotic trance, you're better off than I was.

Another thing about hypnosis though, the participant has to legitimately believe you can hypnotize them, or else you won't be able to. If you're young, there's a good chance you have a hard time making this work.

Now, if you're in High School, you might be able to get away with making a few people (most likely girls [not to be sexist, I just find they're more suggestible]) believe you can hypnotize them, and if you actually pull it off word will spread through the school and then your doors are opened a bit. Not to mention you'll probably have a school friend or two willing to help you with the practice.

If you're in college, it's a bit more fun.

But all-in-all, the Manchurian Approach isn't the best learning material for hypnosis, and I find flaws with the teaching methods and performances.


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 Post subject: Re: Hypnosis
PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 10:22 am 
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How long did it took you to practice?
Is everything difficult to do?


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 Post subject: Re: Hypnosis
PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 4:28 pm 
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Thanks for the heads up Cestdesconneries, I almost bought the Manchurian Approach, you and my magic dealer talked me out of it. On the surface it sounds like an advanced course on the subject, but it apparently isn't.

I think I've got just about every book ever written on hypnosis, I'm looking to start a DVD library on the subject. Amazon has several DVDs on hypnosis, but they're fairly expensive in my opinion, most are $50 for a hour's worth of material.

Most of the people behind these DVDs seem to want you to think they've got the real secrets that no one else has. You take the bait and buy the product only to find out they're all teaching the basics and don't know any more than anyone else. This is very frustrating.

Truthfully, I've learned more watching videos I found on Youtube for FREE than I ever found anywhere else. And I've learned 1000% more material from books that I ever did from videos and DVDs. And that's the advice I would give someone starting out; stick to the books. Amazon has all the good ones too, the Ormand McGill book alone will keep you busy for the next 20 years.

I'm not an expert on hypnosis in any way, I'm just a guy who reads books. Quite frankly most of these so-called experts have got their diploma from dubious sources. If you start questioning them on the subject they get real squirrelly and try to change the subject. One guy, who has made a fortune selling courses on hypnosis, in fact made his diploma on his home computer. This same guy also invented several awards and presented them to himself.

Hypnosis is one area where you should tread lightly.


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 Post subject: Re: Hypnosis
PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 6:47 pm 
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Angel, honestly I'm still practicing. I have a few formal inductions under my belt, but I'm not very seasoned. As for the difficulty of it all, I wouldn't think it's too difficult. You just have to be very careful about your wording honestly. And again, you have to make it believable that you can hypnotize people, and get them comfortable with the idea.

This, for me, involves a brief description of what hypnosis actually is, and a false reason as to why I know how to do it. Usually I also cut down any doubts people may have before they're ever brought up. This takes me about a minute or two, and allows me to get straight into it. I'm fairly young, so it's not always easy to make a participant believe I'm capable (when in reality everybody has the capability, but I'm talkig about the Hypnosis defined in "Monsters and Magical Sticks" by S. Heller). The hardest part is being smooth with your words, because in reality, that's all it seems to be.

But I think it is very worth mentioning that Hypnosis isn't really something you'll master in a month or so. Many people spend years and years studying it, and most people are sure we haven't even tapped into the full potential of hypnosis. It'll take some time to understand the inductions, and then more time to understand what you can do whilst the participant if formally induced, because contrary to popular belief, you're not making the participant do anything. You're "suggesting" they do something, and they follow through to whatever extent they'll allow themselves to. The old tales of Svengali aren't exactly accurate.

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Swayze, I'm glad I could help you out for once sir. If you want something credible, I'd say go for anything by Ormond McGill. I don't think theirs anybody that even comes close to his legend. "Encyclopedia of Stage Hypnosis" seems to be the go-to book, and I'm going to be purchasing one in about a week, personally. I've yet to obtain it due to other studies, most of which are NLP related, but I'm having difficulty finding a credible source for that... Maybe you can give me a good reference? If you know of any


Last edited by cestdesconneries on Mon Sep 02, 2013 7:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Hypnosis
PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 6:53 pm 
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By the way, Angel, NLP and Hypnosis seem to be VERY closely linked (both in the realms of Psychology/Therapy, and Entertainment).

Somebody I'd suggest looking up is Kenton Knepper. His Wonder Words is a highly praised material in NLP, and as I mentioned to Swayze, Ormond McGill is considered "The Dean" of modern hypnosis. Look him up on YouTube if you wish. He's old, and doesn't make it seem too exciting like a movie trailer would, but he really gets you interested in the concept and allows you to see the actual beauty in hypnosis, not just the Impulse-Interest.


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 Post subject: Re: Hypnosis
PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 3:32 am 
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Thanks cestdesconneries.


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 Post subject: Re: Hypnosis
PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 4:05 am 
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Here's Kenton's website. He's got tons of private stuff he only offers through his site only. Magic dealers carry some of his books and DVDs, but there's just so much they can't carry everything. Here's my favorite Kenton books followed by his website:

-Completely Cold
-Miraculous Ploys
-Miracles of Suggestion
-7 Deceptions (Luke Jermay & Kenton)
-Kentonism
-Kolossal Killer
-Killer Konceptions

http://www.wonderwizards.com/


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 Post subject: Re: Hypnosis
PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 4:18 am 
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Thanks for the link swayze


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 Post subject: Re: Hypnosis
PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 12:56 pm 
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ZAP is not worth the money, look at other hypnotic training DVDs


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 Post subject: Re: Hypnosis
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:15 am 
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Thank You to all. May I know how many inductions are taught in the manchurian approach?


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 Post subject: Re: Hypnosis
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 5:13 am 
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If you only get one from Kenton, get 7 Deceptions.


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 Post subject: Re: Hypnosis
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 7:27 am 
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The Manchurian Approach teaches 2 inductions, and I'd only recommend using one.

Don't worry about the number of inductions though, they all accomplish the goal. You'd want to master one or two before you start going too crazy honestly. Learn a single great induction, and after you get that one down I'd say start to experiment.

Anthony will teach two, the Eye-to-Hand Fixation and the Handshake Induction. Eye-to-Hand Fixation is the better of the two, because it won't freak out the participant. The Handshake Induction involves not telling the participant what you're doing, which isn't always a good idea.


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 Post subject: Re: Hypnosis
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 3:44 pm 
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cestdesconneries wrote:
Anthony will teach two, the Eye-to-Hand Fixation and the Handshake Induction. Eye-to-Hand Fixation is the better of the two, because it won't freak out the participant. The Handshake Induction involves not telling the participant what you're doing, which isn't always a good idea.


The "handshake" induction is whats known as a shock induction, the purpose being an instant induction, and for stage hypnosis. Its quite spectacular to see someone fall into instant trance. I use and prefer instant inductions for well the obvious reason of saving me the time a formal induction takes. However I don't use the 'handshake method' as it was developed for performance purposes.

When it comes to formal inductions all one needs to learn is the Elman induction. Why? Because it's guaranteed. So long as you follow the six required steps, the outcome will always be a subject in trance. Let me reiterate that it always works. The hypnotist may have low confidence or the subject may not be participating, but the technique always works 100% of the time.

Whats required for hypnosis to take place?
    - The hypnotist must believe in themselves. (The subject doesn't have to believe anything.) Easiest beginner approach would be to emulate insane confidence.
    - The hypnotist must have permission from the subject. (You can't hypnotize someone without their knowledge, against their will. If you could, hypnosis would be the most tightly gaurded secret in the universe, and they wouldn't teach it in books and DVDs)
    - The subject must be willing to cooperate. (If you ask them to take a deep breathe, and they refuse, you will not be able to hypnotize them, because they're unwilling. They must be responding to suggestion for hypnosis to take place. These people need an explanation that if they would like to experience trance, then they must participate, otherwise too bad.)

As far as the comment about performing on women as opposed to men, I recommend it. Women are infinitely more suggestible than men, and trance has to do with communication with your subconscious, something women have been doing their whole lives by dealing with and expressing emotions, (a more suppressed behavior for men.) For this reason they typically make much better subjects. It's doesn't mean you can't hypnotize men, they're simply more of a challenge and typically more skeptical which hurts their willingness to participate.

A note about using particular language and/or NLP. First off, let me just say that NLP was literally written by master hypnotists like Richard Bandler, and it was their attempt to introduce hypnotic effects without putting your subject into trance. Today it's used mostly in advertising and sales techniques for using specific language to persuade people to take action. A lot of the hypnotism community tries to put a large emphasis on using the correct language. Ultimately, the words you choose are actually of little relevance, the most important thing is getting your subject to move through the desired state changes. The state changes are whats important. The words you use to get them there are not.

If you're serious about learning hypnosis and actually being adept at it. (Meaning no scripts, no memorized patterns or steps, you're able to just put someone in trance on the fly.) Then you actually have to do it. You actually need to go out there and hypnotize people and find out, can you actually do it, can you get the desired affects? And the best way to find out is by doing it through an internship with a hypnosis practice.

By the way the post about the "flakey hypnotists" with a bogus diploma... Well just to let you know, there is no such thing as a 'hypnosis diploma.' It's not formally offered in schools. There are certifications out there and training programs, but there is no official certificate or diploma that proves someone is a hypnotist.


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 Post subject: Re: Hypnosis
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 8:31 am 
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WRONG Malfy! Hypnosis is taught at most major universities that have graduate programs in clinical psychology. You are correct in the fact that there are no diplomas in hypnosis because it is just a tool that an analyst can use in counselling.


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