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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 4:52 pm 
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Khuldrin wrote:
So here is a question... if you are hired into a restaurant to be doing magic and you get injured on the job; ie burned hand with flash paper, tripped over a chair, punched in the mouth by an over jealous boyfriend/husband, etc. are you on the restaurants workmans comp? I doubt it.
As table hoppers, we are considered sub contractors. Child labor laws would not cover that if the performer is only 13 and sub contracted themselves to the gig. The restaurant would not be held accountable for the sub contractors age or injury if there was one.
Is 13 to young? Perhaps, but there are 5 year old prodeges in other art forms that get paid for their talents.


That is correct, we are sub contractors. Now follow the logic and you just bit yourself in the a$$. Can a 13 year old, or any minbor child, sign a legally binding sub contract agreement?

OF COURSE NOT! They can't enter into any type of contract, be it sub contract or whatever. Ergo (Latin, look it up) They can not perform in a restaurant. Ergo, age is a factor because only a dumb idiot would allow a minor to perform.


Last edited by paddy on Fri Dec 29, 2006 4:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 11:31 pm 
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Perhaps they should create a new franchise called "Dumb Idiot Diners," exclusively for teens to work and perform at. Penguinites get top priority.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 2:43 pm 
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Khuldrin wrote:
Is 13 to young? Perhaps, but there are 5 year old prodeges in other art forms that get paid for their talents.


Do these '5 year old prodoges' work for tips in a restaurant?


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 Post subject: Re: Age is NOT a factor.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 11:17 pm 
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Parasiteyo wrote:
Hey all, I believe this is my first post but I'd like to say first and foremost- thanks for reading.

I noticed alot of you people saying you cant get a job being a magician ant a restaurant until youre 15/16 or older, and I think its BS.

My theory: you can become a restaurant magician at any age so long as youre mentally on the same level as your audience, are presentable, and act professionally.

Now one might argue: 'you cant be mentally on the same level as an adult at 13 (lets say)' and that isnt true. Ive basically had to grow up around all my relatives and neighbours being either ALOT younger than me or ALOT older than me, and not wanting to hang out with the little kids, I was always with the adults. Thus giving me the chance to understand how they operated, and thus developped my vocabulary and general understanding of things.

On friday I had walked into a restaurant (small jamaican place in town) and got my food, the place was pretty empty and I started talking with the owner, and mentionned I did magic. On request I pulled out the ghost deck I had in my breast pocket and showed him a 2 card monte (very good idea to have this trick set up at all times), and he bugged out, and asked for more, I kindly obliged and showed him some abitious stuff. very very good reactions. I joked with him and further conversed after the show, and he was wondering what casino I worked at to pick up this stuff, I simply replied "Hah, casino.... I'm only 14".

Well, to say the least he was very amazed (though I think it had less to do with the fact I had good conversational skills and more my appearance.), and didn't belive me. after showing him my g.9 2006/07 student I.D., he finnaly believed me.

Well I talked with him some more, and had mentionned I might be looking for a job working a restaurant sometime in early 07, and then I was offerred a job. Details will be later worked out and nothing is certain yet, but I think that goes to show age is not a factor.

Simply put, I believe you should posess desirable qualities to work a restaurant;
-BE PREPARED!!
-Good vocabulary
-Look Presentable!
-Learn to carry an intelligent conversation with someone older than you
-Dont EVER show somthing youre working on, stay to your comfortable fields.
-Never toot your own horn in front of those youre trying to impress (be modest, but not TOO modest)
-Learn to know your audience quickly and use humour.
-Be CLEAR in what you want to do. If your audience dosnt understand your aim then the effect could be bust. (Eg. tell your spec to name a card then do invisible deck--- just dosnt get as good reactions as saying 'I predicted that' or 'im going to try to get you to do this with your mind' etc)
-Never be profaine, feign, or rude.
-Dont nescessarily put on a special fassad for performing in a restaurant, be your normal performing self.

And thats about it.
I never went into this restaurant for a job, just dinner, everything I did/wore/said was what I do casually with any spectator, and look what it very well might get me.

Just a heads up to the young ones, who are told by older people they CANT do it.
PAra.

Age: 14
Height: 6' 2 1/2"
Weight: high 200s, possibly low 300s.
Shoes: 13
Facial hair: mutton chops/sometimes beard
(just for those who may have wonderred my appearance.)


OH now I see you must go by the chinese calendar that would explain the misunderstanding.


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 Post subject: Let's settle this once and for all!
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 9:44 pm 
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I think that younger people work harder, we want it more. I'm sure veryone practices, a lot. When I want to learn a new trick I put it before everything else, my social life, school, EVERYTHING. I practice the trick 5-12 hours a day and even lose sleep over it. Me an da friend of mine 9also a magician) are working a a 60 mintues routine right now and its quite good. I did not yet read all of the replys, but I read a few and you were all putting down this kid who is my age. I don't think that's right, you're almost discouraging him. If you don't think a kid can look professional, think again. kids can sometimes be the most mature people around. Also, soemone said that it would be unprofessional for the restaurant, I don't think it would make them look bad I think it would make them look good getting somebody new to working restaurants a job. For all you guys know this could set thsi kid up for life, he shows one person a trick and he asks him to work a party, and simply by word of mouth he's a local celebrity. As long as you have the dedication to the art of magic you can be a working magician regardless of your age. Its as simple as that.


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 Post subject: Let's settle this once and for all!
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 9:45 pm 
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I think that younger people work harder, we want it more. I'm sure veryone practices, a lot. When I want to learn a new trick I put it before everything else, my social life, school, EVERYTHING. I practice the trick 5-12 hours a day and even lose sleep over it. Me an da friend of mine 9also a magician) are working a a 60 mintues routine right now and its quite good. I did not yet read all of the replys, but I read a few and you were all putting down this kid who is my age. I don't think that's right, you're almost discouraging him. If you don't think a kid can look professional, think again. kids can sometimes be the most mature people around. Also, soemone said that it would be unprofessional for the restaurant, I don't think it would make them look bad I think it would make them look good getting somebody new to working restaurants a job. For all you guys know this could set thsi kid up for life, he shows one person a trick and he asks him to work a party, and simply by word of mouth he's a local celebrity. As long as you have the dedication to the art of magic you can be a working magician regardless of your age. Its as simple as that.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 9:47 pm 
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sorry, double post and a few typos, my apologies


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 Post subject: Re: Let's settle this once and for all!
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 10:03 pm 
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Barb135 wrote:
I think that younger people work harder, we want it more. I'm sure veryone practices, a lot. When I want to learn a new trick I put it before everything else, my social life, school, EVERYTHING. I practice the trick 5-12 hours a day and even lose sleep over it. Me an da friend of mine 9also a magician) are working a a 60 mintues routine right now and its quite good. I did not yet read all of the replys, but I read a few and you were all putting down this kid who is my age. I don't think that's right, you're almost discouraging him. If you don't think a kid can look professional, think again. kids can sometimes be the most mature people around. Also, soemone said that it would be unprofessional for the restaurant, I don't think it would make them look bad I think it would make them look good getting somebody new to working restaurants a job. For all you guys know this could set thsi kid up for life, he shows one person a trick and he asks him to work a party, and simply by word of mouth he's a local celebrity. As long as you have the dedication to the art of magic you can be a working magician regardless of your age. Its as simple as that.
To put it simple, you are wrong. If you aren't atleast 14, you won't work in a resturaunt. Because it's illegal. You have to understand that. And even at 14, you are under many stipulations when working, so most resturaunts aren't going to hire you until you are atleast 16.

A young kid working in a resturaunt will make the resturaunt look unprofessional. You really should read the previous posts, you would learn something from them. It's not that people are bashing the young kids for not being good. They are just stating the facts. A kid is not mature enough to handle the responsibility or go through the experiences. That's a simple fact.

Also, how do you think you will get to your job in the first place? There is a law about driving age. You will not be looked at as a professional, because of your age. That's life.

Finally, younger people don't work harder. Some younger people make work hard. But from my experience, most of the young magicians that I've seen put very little effort into magic. They want everything given to them on a silver platter. I'm glad to hear that you aren't a person like this though.

So to sum it up, you really just don't know what you are talking about. Don't take this as an insult. It's just that you don't have enough life experience to truly know how people are going to look at you. A young kid is not going to be mature enough, they won't be looked at as a professional, and they should not work at a resturaunt.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 1:31 pm 
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I think fallingblood has summed this discussion up nicely. Being of the over 30 set, and having dined out many, many times, I can assure the young folks that the last thing I want at my table is a child the same age as my own children trying to entertain me.

Also, the laws of the country are pretty clear, and a child cannot legally work in a restaurant until he or she is of hireable age. The restaurant has not only it's image to think about, but it's liability as well. What if the child hurts someone, or says something insulting? The establishment has just lost a client.

Think about this: what will the place do if a member of the labor board comes in for dinner, and sees a minor working the place illegally. The fines and such are probably not worth it to the owner.

In short, no one is questioning ability. I have known a few kids that are well on their way to becoming fine performers. What is at stake when a 12-15 year old works a restaurant is liability and reputation.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 6:15 pm 
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Actually, we should all listen to the 12 and 13 year old experts here. They seem to know all the answers that those of us who have been magicians longer than they have been alive don't have.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 6:57 pm 
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Yes I am afraid my new DVD "30 years in 30 minutes...same thing" has leveled the playing field drastically.


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 Post subject: Re: Let's settle this once and for all!
PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 6:53 am 
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Barb135 wrote:
I think that younger people work harder, we want it more. I'm sure veryone practices, a lot. When I want to learn a new trick I put it before everything else, my social life, school, EVERYTHING. I practice the trick 5-12 hours a day and even lose sleep over it. Me an da friend of mine 9also a magician) are working a a 60 mintues routine right now and its quite good. I did not yet read all of the replys, but I read a few and you were all putting down this kid who is my age. I don't think that's right, you're almost discouraging him. If you don't think a kid can look professional, think again. kids can sometimes be the most mature people around. Also, soemone said that it would be unprofessional for the restaurant, I don't think it would make them look bad I think it would make them look good getting somebody new to working restaurants a job. For all you guys know this could set thsi kid up for life, he shows one person a trick and he asks him to work a party, and simply by word of mouth he's a local celebrity. As long as you have the dedication to the art of magic you can be a working magician regardless of your age. Its as simple as that.



Interesting. You go for a job in the future.

"So what grades did you get at school?"
"Erm, well i put magic before school so i got mostly Es but i can do a great magic trick."

"Are you good at working with other people?"
"I dont really know because i put magic before friends."

You are not helping yourself.

Professional magicians are not the best jobs around (Money wise) unless you get very "LUCKY".

You need school and friends most at your age.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 6:55 am 
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kids cant be as mature as an adult, they cant have the same experience they cant legally work, and they should not be hired by a restaurant because a restaurant want professionals.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 10:40 pm 
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It's not age as much as it is experience. Several years ago, I dined at a local restaurant. The hired magician was an elderly gentleman, yet he simply could not perform. He approached guests, tapped them on their shoulders rudely interrupting conversations, and consistently showed cheesy effects. My friends and I felt sorry for the the poor guy.
On the other hand, a nineteen year old, who then worked at a magic store, performed restaurant magic very well. He knew when and how to approach a table, what to say, and he presented the effects well.
He admitted people would sometimes start arguments, and one occasion, a patron put his leg out tripping him. Yet, my young friend had the discipline not to lose his temper with anyone.
It depends on your maturity and experience.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 3:35 pm 
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Parasiteyo wrote:
whoa whoa whoa, I'm 14. and I do agree there has to be a line in terms of actual size of a person, a 13 your old 4'5" squeaky voice is indeed a gimmick, but thats not what I mean. Im strictly trying to say you shouldnt be discouraged by your age if your skill is there.

As far as me being unsociable- I am very social, now, anyways. I always used to be worried about my weight and thought id get judged because of it so I didnt really socialize that much until the last few years. socializing is not a problem. the problem was growing up around adults.

I'm kind of wondering why ive come under fire for giving a positive message to young magicians that they can do this if the skill is there. Mind you if you look like a typical 8 year old youre not getting hired anywhere, at least not as a serious magician.

But what im trying to say is if you can intelligently converse with those older and hold their interest, I see no reason not to be able to be hired.

And I guess when it all comes down to it, youre appearance counts most. Generally when I go to parties im always offerred alchohol of sorts, I just guess im older than I look. I don't look like a typical 14 year old (around here thats skatecore apperal and shaggy hair), nor do I think I act like one.

heh... I guess I just disproved myself in a sense there. age does matter, or at least how old you look (and sound).

thanks...
PAra


If the skill is there... then save it - refine it and practice, practice, practice. And don't take me saying "practice" as a insult, because every one has to practice. I do not dout that you are not as good as you say you are. But think of it this way. If you are this prepared now just imagine how good you will be if you wait.

It is sad to say that most people will not respect you if you are that young. The trouble is that you can not change that. You WILL have a more successful career if you wait.
If you start now you will be looked as a child and that will be your image. Even when you get older, that image will stick with you.

It is the same thing with acting. That is why so many child actors have trouble getting work when they are older. Let’s take "Family Matters" for example. In that show there was the you boy Steve Urkel. I remember seeing him in a show about child actors. I remember him saying he could not get serious parts in other shows and movies because he is haunted by his little nerdy boy childhood image.

Don't be an Urkle wait a couple years. That is what I did and I am very happy that I did. At very least wait until you are old enough and able to drive yourself to your own shows.

~Adam Michael


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