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 Post subject: Question for those that Table hop
PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2004 5:05 am 
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Penguin

Joined: 01 Jul 2004
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OK I have a question for those that table hop,

Does mentalism work in a table hopping situation. Primarily the difficulty I can see would be due to the relatively small visual factor of mentalism, which I could see suffering in a potentially noisy environment, where people may also have had a few to drink.

Clearly this would not affect for example spoon bending but could affect most other mentalism. Does it?

I ask the question of those that actually table hop cos I'm not rerally after theories here.

Cheers :)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2004 5:30 am 
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The only answer you can get are theoretical answers. That is because we don't know you or how good your pesentation is. I sometimes throw some mentalism into my act (I am a full time restaurant magician) and have no problem with it. In fact I have gotten Banachek's new DVD series and am adding some new stuff in restaurants.

The restaurants get really mad if you bend up their spoons, so I am going to start bending nails. That will wake up the customers.

Peter


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2004 6:34 pm 
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Penguin

Joined: 01 Jul 2004
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Quote:
The only answer you can get are theoretical answers. That is because we don't know you or how good your pesentation is. I sometimes throw some mentalism into my act (I am a full time restaurant magician) and have no problem with it. In fact I have gotten Banachek's new DVD series and am adding some new stuff in restaurants.

The restaurants get really mad if you bend up their spoons, so I am going to start bending nails. That will wake up the customers.


Peter if someone were to ask me if spongeballs worked in a childrens party setting, I could answer without knowing anything about them. By saying spongeballs work for kids parties I wouldn't be saying that it meant they would work for him, even if he had no skill in either handling or presentation.

What I'm asking is does a 100% mentalism routine work in a table hopping situation. It is to be taken as read that we are talking about mentalism that is properly presented.

I ask after speaking to a mentalism pro of some 25 years that reckoned it didn't work.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2004 7:49 pm 
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Penguin

Joined: 26 May 2004
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Location: Sarasota, Florida
Steve, as a part-time restaurant magician I would say "no" to a 100% mentalism routine. Mentalism can have its place, but I would not do more than one, possibly two of that type of effect. People can be impressed that you can mentally know what card they are thinking of or whathaveyou, but it is much more effective in a restaurant or table hopping situation to have cards, coins, rope, etc. A guy in our local Ring did 2 mentalism routines in a row for our closeup contest and took a "bit" of time during each routine as he was "devining" what card was chosen. I don't mean to be rude here, but gosh was he BORING! Then he started the second trick that did almost exactly the same thing and I almost fell asleep. Now, don't get me wrong, mentalism can be very very cool if performed well and kept to a single occurance - or possibly two at different times during a routine. Also, don't forget decks like the Invisible Deck where mentalism can be sort of routined into the trick. I combine my invisible deck sometimes with a trick called "Missing Think" which allows you to know the spectators card without the card name ever being spoken. I can then have the spectator's card reversed in the invisible deck. Its pretty startling!

So, in short (yeah right) a 100% mentalism routine in my opinion would not work well. Use it sparingly and I think it could be very powerful.

Oh, and don't slam paddy - he questions things like that because there are a LOT of young people on the forums that just go around asking for blanket advice and really don't have a clue about what they are doing. Don't get me wrong - not all young people are clueless or unexperienced - in fact there are quite a few that are seasoned professionals and can share a great deal of knowledge. It just seems (from what I've seen in my short time here) that a lot of the people browsing just spout out questions or post tons of responses without doing their research or to just raise post totals. I think, and paddy can correct me if I'm wrong, that he is trying to look out for the best interests of magicians when he asks questions like he did. He also would like to be able to put out the best and most helpful information that would benefit a performer at different levels, if you know what I mean.

Hope something in there helps.

Take care,
Dave


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2004 9:07 pm 
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Steve,

Yes, it is easy to say "Sponge balls work with kids," but you could simply hand the kids some sponge balls and go outside and have a beer, and the kids would have fun. They are easy. I think the short answer is that yes, you can do some mentalism in a restaurant setting, but you are right, the noise distraction can affect things, but that is true of any complicated trick. You have to find out what works for you in the particular restaurant you work at.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2004 9:18 pm 
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SteveLeeds wrote:
...I ask after speaking to a mentalism pro of some 25 years that reckoned it didn't work.


OH, good, tell that to Banachek who has done mentalism in a restaurant situation and been successful at it. In Dayton OH there is a mentalist who goes by "Zeke the Freak" and works restaurants every Fri and Sat night. I use it myself, not 100% but I use it. Someone with a different personality could very well be strictly a mentalist and make it very well.

Peter


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2004 8:22 am 
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Joined: 01 Jul 2004
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Quote:
Mentalism can have its place, but I would not do more than one, possibly two of that type of effect.


I know just mentalism alone works well, because I've done it and more to the point many others have, the issue I was asking was whether the noise factor of table hopping situations may seriously affect that. I'd suggest the mentalism you saw that was boring was the result of the performer. Of course it may also have been poor effects that he had chosen.

Quote:
Yes, it is easy to say "Sponge balls work with kids," but you could simply hand the kids some sponge balls and go outside and have a beer, and the kids would have fun.


Clearly someone that has never done kids magic.

Quote:
OH, good, tell that to Banachek who has done mentalism in a restaurant situation and been successful at it. In Dayton OH there is a mentalist who goes by "Zeke the Freak" and works restaurants every Fri and Sat night. I use it myself, not 100% but I use it. Someone with a different personality could very well be strictly a mentalist and make it very well.


Yeah that was my thoughts too, however they did raise what seemed like some valid points, ie the noise level causing difficulties for effects that were not visual. In your case where you do some mentalism you perhaps don't have this problem as if the noise is too much you may choose to not use that effect and do some regular magic instead. However if your routine is only mentalism you are not given that opportunity. Or do you find that you can do your mentalism whenever you choose and your not dictated to, by background noise or drinking?

Though I might be disagreeing with some of the comments or at least challenging them, I do appreciatiate all input.

Thanks


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2004 8:57 am 
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SteveLeeds wrote:
Quote:
Yes, it is easy to say "Sponge balls work with kids," but you could simply hand the kids some sponge balls and go outside and have a beer, and the kids would have fun.


Clearly someone that has never done kids magic.




First of all, you know nothing about what I do and don't do. I happen to do full, high quality sponge ball routines with kids, teenagers, and adults. I am well aware of how powerful they are. I was, indirectly, responding to your complaint that, while magicians can give a clear answer to the question, "Do sponge balls work with kids?", we had not given you a clear answer to the question, "Will mentalism work in a restaurant setting?"

My point is that sponge balls and kids is a no-brainer. I am not saying you should go have a beer during a kids show (that was a joke), or that it is easy to give a good sponge ball routine, just that it is a no-brainer. The same can't be said about mentalism. To expect the same easy answer is silly.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2004 10:49 am 
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My comment to you was aimed at your over simplicity at entertaining kids. It certainly is not easy and simply handing them the sponge balls while you take a break, isn't the kind of comment I'd expect from someone experienced in dealing with kids.

The use of sponge balls as an example was to illustrate that certain effects ( assuming it is done reasonably well ) will work in certain situations. Hence you can go to any online magic shop and see effects identified as "kids" or "stage" etc My point being there is no need to know the skill level of someone before answering that a certain type of effect works in a certain setting.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2004 12:01 pm 
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SteveLeeds wrote:
My comment to you was aimed at your over simplicity at entertaining kids. It certainly is not easy and simply handing them the sponge balls while you take a break, isn't the kind of comment I'd expect from someone experienced in dealing with kids.

The use of sponge balls as an example was to illustrate that certain effects ( assuming it is done reasonably well ) will work in certain situations. Hence you can go to any online magic shop and see effects identified as "kids" or "stage" etc My point being there is no need to know the skill level of someone before answering that a certain type of effect works in a certain setting.


I will add again, that I was joking. If you thought otherwise, than I can't help you further.

And I disagree about whether we need to know your skill level. Paddy has been patient and helpful here on Penguin, despite the fact that you find dozens of young teens who want to know how to hit the streets or restaurants to earn money with their Stealth Pen, and Two Card Monte.

I have some experience but I would never ask (as I suppose is true with you, too,) how well linking rings might work on a stage show that I am doing next week, if I have never done linking rings. But that is fairly common at Penguin (Many here will say, " oh I have a restaurant audition tomorrow, what should I do?) So forgive us if we ask for more information.

Besides, it is a little pendantic to be bothered by something as trivial as this. Wouldn't it just be more helpful to just tell us the level of your skill, rather than lecturing us on how we should answer your question?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2004 6:41 pm 
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Quote:
Besides, it is a little pendantic to be bothered by something as trivial as this. Wouldn't it just be more helpful to just tell us the level of your skill, rather than lecturing us on how we should answer your question?


I think I have every right to point out if the question I have asked is not being answered. As to my skill while I still maintain it has absolutely no relevance to the question, I am a perfectly competant performer and no young kid as you describe.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2004 7:22 pm 
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SteveLeeds wrote:
Quote:
Besides, it is a little pendantic to be bothered by something as trivial as this. Wouldn't it just be more helpful to just tell us the level of your skill, rather than lecturing us on how we should answer your question?


I think I have every right to point out if the question I have asked is not being answered. As to my skill while I still maintain it has absolutely no relevance to the question, I am a perfectly competant performer and no young kid as you describe.


We can all say, I have every right. So what? We have every right to ask you what your experience is. And for what it is worth, your question was answered. Mentalism is OK, if you can do it correctly. I also never said you were a kid. But we get a lot of kids here with no experience. But if you persist in telling people how they are, voluntarily, answering questions wrongly, they might stop answering them.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2004 8:49 pm 
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Mr Leeds, from your defensive answers and accusations to those who tried to help, I am beginning to accept that you are a "competant (sic)performer." Yes, so are rodeo clowns and they throw solid bull waste as a performance. I believe you are doing the same.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2004 5:35 am 
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Penguin

Joined: 01 Jul 2004
Posts: 18
Quote:
We can all say, I have every right. So what? We have every right to ask you what your experience is. And for what it is worth, your question was answered. Mentalism is OK, if you can do it correctly.


Looks like your now agreeing with me then, if you think the question was answered without you knowing my skill level it just proves you didn't need to know my skill level to answer.

Quote:
I also never said you were a kid. But we get a lot of kids here with no experience.


Yes I know you never stated I was a Kid and your point is?

Quote:
But if you persist in telling people how they are, voluntarily, answering questions wrongly, they might stop answering them
.

Actually I posted this question in two different places and in this case I only put half the question, I only noted this on re-reading the post. The second half of the question was what methods were employed to get around the difficulties of noise when the effects were not particularily visual. It was this part of the question I was refering to when I stated the question hadn't been answered which was my mistake since I hadn't asked it in this thread.


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