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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 3:35 pm 
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Joined: 13 Nov 2004
Posts: 81
Re: miniserb725.

First off may I say thanks for the helpful advice at the end of your post, that's the kind of suggestion I was looking for. Secondly, may I say thanks for presenting yourself in a calm, organized way and presenting some actual insight into the goings-on here with an intellectual approach. Rather than saying "OMG DON'T SAY ANYTHING AGAINST PADDY CUZ HE IS ALWAYS RIGHT. I KNOW THIS CUZ I'M TOO STUPID TO ARGUE WITH HIM SO I JUST ASSUME NOBODY ELSE CAN SEE THE ERRORS HE SOMETIMES MAKES".

miniserb725 wrote:
DillWeed wrote:
Actually your point was that since I'm inexperienced as a mentalist, I shouldn't do the show at all. My post didn't prove that at all.


You say yourself that you are inexperienced as a mentalist.


The above quote of my text is in reference to my and Paddy's first post. At that point in time I had said nothing to indicate that I was completely incapable of doing the show.

miniserb725 wrote:
DillWeed wrote:
And yes, I am inexperienced in performing mentalism.


So paddy, as usual, was right. Plus the fact that if you are asking for effects for an upcoming show means that you accepted a job without a planned routine and script.


Well as per my previous response, Paddy was not right, however usual of a thing that may be. And since you failed to grasp it from my first post, I will spell this out for you again: I am not asking for effects, I know the methods to all the effects mentioned, and I have my own routine for each one. I was merely looking for other people's takes on the effects to see if there were any other creative minds out there, doing great things with a fantastic effect.

I accepted a job with what I believe to be a solid routine, and at no point have I said when the show will be. All I have said is it is "coming up" which could be anything as far as you know. However to tell you, it is in a couple months, and that is more than enough time to take my show-idea and turn it into a great show. Part of this process is finding out if any aspect of the routine itself could be improved before polishing it up to 100% perfect. That was my original aim here which has been hijacked by incompetent, emotional over-reactors (not you).

miniserb725 wrote:
DillWeed wrote:
Secondly, you are participating in a 100% English forum. Everyone participating posts in English and is expected to understand English. The fact that you speak 7 other languages is moot. The only bearing it has is that your grasp of English is weaker than mine as a result of the language center in your simian brain being split 8 ways.


This was a poor attempt at an insult, and directed at a full time professional magician. So much for respect. He is giving you the right advice, as much as you don't want to hear it.


Why should I respect someone that just jumps on any opportunity to try and prove his superiority over others? Someone that just instantly harps on people without all of the facts? With someone that jumps to conclusions and responds in a negative manner without thinking?

His advice was given in haste under false assumptions, and therefore is fully incorrect. It also had nothing to do with the original question. I didn't ask "Do you guys think I'm ready to do the show?". That is for me to decide and I already have made that decision. I asked if anybody had an interesting take on the Invisible Touch effect. And so far nobody has responded to that question.

miniserb725 wrote:
DillWeed wrote:
Thirdly, I think you mean "interpret" but who knows, if you won't take the time to run a spell-checker, how can you have any credibility as a hard-working non-lazy magician? Disgusting.


One spelling mistake doesn't make someone's advice any less credible. You have a grammar error in the first sentence of your original post. Big deal, it happens.


You are correct, a small spelling mistake or grammatical error that doesn't affect the meaning of a sentence at all doesn't make anybody less credible. It does happen and nobody is perfect. The quote of my text you have provided there is a satirical jab at how he jumps on others for the exact same pitfall he succumbs to. That instance of a spelling error is just one of a LARGE number for Paddy, and he should stop telling people they are lazy magicians because they are too lazy to run a spell-checker. *HE* is too lazy to run a spell-checker as shown above! He's definitely not a lazy magician, he's just too busy to waste his time making his forum-posts 100% grammatically accurate. Maybe the others that make spelling mistakes and don't run a spell checker are too busy practicing their magic? Once again his logic is flawed.

miniserb725 wrote:
DillWeed wrote:
No I expressed myself in a 100% clear manner. I was looking for thoughts and workings of the Invisible Touch routine additional to those of my own. I didn't state the reason why I wanted them, and you just assumed it was because I have no current workings for the routine. It was your assumption that caused the problem. It was not a result of any ambiguity on my part.


If you had done your research, Banachek, Knepper, Jermay, and Osterlind all have material on enhancing any mentalism act. And if you have Banacheck's Psychokinetic Touches, he pretty much covers everything you need. Stories and patter need to be original to the performer, otherwise the performance becomes stale and boring.


Part of my research was asking a well-established community their thoughts and experiences with the matter. Once again, thanks for actually providing useful advice. You really are this forum's shining star, unlike the rest of the dead weight you see posting above you. I will be sure to consult those materials. As for stories original to the performer. I have my own, and I was interested in seeing what others have to say on the subject. Maybe to hybridize all of our ideas into a synergetic masterpiece and share it with the community. However this ideal has gone horribly awry, as you can tell, mostly in part to the negative non-helpful instantaneous assuming response of Paddy.

miniserb725 wrote:
DillWeed wrote:
And yes, I am inexperienced in performing mentalism, and that's why I wrote here looking for potential ideas people may have thought of that I have not yet considered and have not yet been able to learn due to my lack of experience. However, you are suggesting that I back-out of getting my first experience BECAUSE I have no experience. Your logic is, as usual, extremely flawed. I'm 100% confident I can deliver a great show that the client will be overly-pleased with, as I have experience with performing in general, and will just be applying a mentalism filter to that framework. I wrote here seeking knowledge from those that do have the experience in hopes of delivering an even better show, because I care that much about delivering for the client


You're inexperienced in a field, are asking for effects after you've accepted a show, and are looking for scripting and stories for an effect that allows pretty much endless possibilities. That doesn't show much dedication to the art or your client's wishes.


Once again, I'm not asking for effects at all. I think you misunderstood my original intention and I hope it is now clear.

The fact that there are endless possibilities is the very reason I am asking. Since there are endless possibilities there is no way I can consider them all on my own. That is why I have asked the opinions of others, who may offer up the 1 or 2 ideas they have filtered out from the rest. Do you understand what my intention is now?

miniserb725 wrote:
He's not saying, "Don't perform mentalism because you're inexperienced." He's saying, "Don't do a PAYING gig with material you're inexperienced with." Therefore, paddy's logic holds.


I have to do my first mentalism paying gig somewhere. It may not be the best mentalism show I will do in my life, but everyone has to start somewhere. I'm inexperienced in doing professional mentalism, however, I have a great deal of amateur experience. This is the route everyone takes on the road to becoming great. I know I am ready to do a paying gig with the material I have, I'm merely seeking to make it even better, and I have plenty of time to do so. Paddy's logic does not hold because he does not have all the facts. He doesn't know how long I have to actually get ready, he misunderstood my initial question, as you did, and he didn't even respond to the question.

miniserb725 wrote:
DillWeed wrote:
No, I expressed exactly what I wanted to. What I didn't express was the reason I was asking. I didn't express it because it was unimportant and had zero bearing on what the response should be. Perhaps you could re-write your answer to provide useful advice instead of simply attempting to discourage people from broadening their horizons.


You asked: "Does anyone have any unusual or creative ways of presenting the Invisible Touch (A.K.A. the PK Touch)? Do you have a good story to go with it?"

If you can't be bothered to come up with your own scripting and presentation, how are we supposed to take that? At face value, it certainly looks as though you're lazy and don't want to do the work. Whether that's true or not, I don't know. You have to be specific on these forums, as we don't know who you are or what you're capable of.


Again, I have "bothered" to come up with my own scripting and presentation. So I would suggest you to take that in a different manner than you already have. At face value that WOULD look lazy, but that is not what I said at all, and I don't see why you would infer it from my original post. You raise a good point of not knowing what level I'm at due to the anonymity, but by the same token you can not assume that I'm 100% not-ready to perform a show, because the fact is you just don't know.

miniserb725 wrote:
As far as other "tricks" to use in your routine, I'd recommend Corinda's 13 Steps and Anneman's Practical Mental Magic. They both have a ton of effects, and I'm sure there's some in there that could suit you.


Once again, I'll look into both of these. This is really helpful advice and Paddy, if he wanted to actually help instead of just making himself feel like a big-boss-man, should have offered something along these lines.

So in summary, you're much less assuming and far more intelligent, miniserb725, than Guardian452 as well as Paddy. I really appreciate you responding with well-thought-out points, as well as actually helpful advice pertaining to the original post. I will look into the materials you suggested and I think they should answer my questions perfectly. Thanks again!


Last edited by DillWeed on Thu Jul 05, 2007 3:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 3:35 pm 
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Joined: 03 Dec 2006
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Location: Parkville, MO
scl95 wrote:
*sigh* Wheres DaveV when you need him.


Here :wink:


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 5:03 pm 
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born to perform.

Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 885
Location: Wood River, Illinois
Some of the people on here think that they are the best magicians in the world, but I have news for them (they are not). people on here are concerned with there post count, or being the first to reply. If you do not have anything to add whay say anything? If someone is asking for help and you have nothing to say, then don't. If you are just trying to make everyone think that you have all of the answers, you do not! People come here (new and experianced) to share ideas, if you do not wish to do that then do not even respond, and if you are doing it so that people can't use your effect, if you don't share it we can't use it so your secret is safe and will go to your grave with you. I myself like to share as someone may see something different that I did not think of, and that is helpful. A lot of times people on here are not helpful. I used to tell people to buy here so that they can use the forums to get information, I no longer tell people that and direct them elswhere so that they do not see all of the BS on here. So do your self a favor and check your tophat and cape at the door and then come in and talk, not yell, call names or critisize.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 5:07 pm 
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born to perform.

Joined: 13 Nov 2003
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Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Zambini, you're absolutely right, but I think the problem here wasn't that anyone has a huge ego, it's the way that DillWeed presented his original question. It made it seem like he wasn't prepared, and in that case paddy did give him the best advice. If, however, he is prepared as he says he is, then he was pointed to a few resources that could help.

I think paddy gives great advice, and respect his opinion.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 5:19 pm 
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born to perform.

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Location: Wood River, Illinois
When I first read the post in question, I took it as he was looking for information to add to his effect, as I have been. I never took it as he did not know how to do it. I also take on shows that I have to change around, add to and rewrite for the show. This in no meens says that I am not ready or have an existing routine. I just think that as a responder, people need to get all of the information before telling someone that they should not perform, everyone has to learn somewhere and make mistakes from there dicissions and learn from them. now days everyone thinks that experiance comes from reading or advice from someone else. You have to perform to get experiance and to learn what works. This person is just trying to get some input from others doing the same type of show, nothing else and I saw this, apearrently nobody else did.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 5:57 pm 
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Everyone keeps saying "paddy didn't have the whole story", but it wasn't given to him. No, I don't have a problem with DillWeed, but maybe in his second (or original) post he should've explained himself, and given paddy the whole story instead of going on the attack right away. (Again, Dill, no offense, just a suggestion). You said that, "I just think that as a responder, people need to get all of the information before telling someone that they should not perform." My point was that as an inquirer, he should provide us with all the information WE need to give him a good answer.

We're all used to seeing unprepared, immature kids looking for and accepting jobs nowadays. Its become the norm at penguin that after 2 months and a few performances of Self Tying Shoelace for friends, people want to go pro. Then a few weeks later, we see "I have a show in 2 weeks, what are some good tricks and routines?". It's not fair to people who are prepared and looking for advice, but if we were provided with more information, we may not have jumped to conclusions so quickly.

Again, good luck with your show DillWeed, and zambini, I do understand what you're saying.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 8:05 am 
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miniserb725 wrote:
Everyone keeps saying "paddy didn't have the whole story", but it wasn't given to him. No, I don't have a problem with DillWeed, but maybe in his second (or original) post he should've explained himself, and given paddy the whole story instead of going on the attack right away. (Again, Dill, no offense, just a suggestion). You said that, "I just think that as a responder, people need to get all of the information before telling someone that they should not perform." My point was that as an inquirer, he should provide us with all the information WE need to give him a good answer.

We're all used to seeing unprepared, immature kids looking for and accepting jobs nowadays. Its become the norm at penguin that after 2 months and a few performances of Self Tying Shoelace for friends, people want to go pro. Then a few weeks later, we see "I have a show in 2 weeks, what are some good tricks and routines?". It's not fair to people who are prepared and looking for advice, but if we were provided with more information, we may not have jumped to conclusions so quickly.

Again, good luck with your show DillWeed, and zambini, I do understand what you're saying.


1. The show is in a couple months, I have plenty of time to re-work routines if I need to. As well, I never made any objective mention of time in the original post. I said it was "coming up". That could mean anything.

2. Paddy *didn't* have the full story, and it wasn't given to him. But that does not mean he can just go flying off the handle assuming everything. If he's unsure of something, he can ask for clarification like normal people do. He was just out there looking to make himself feel good and over-reacted. He made a mistake, he's fully in the wrong, and now he's avoiding the entire thread because he knows it.

3. "My point was that as an inquirer, he should provide us with all the information WE need to give him a good answer." - I DID provide everything that was required to give a good answer. I asked if anyone had any creative ideas regarding the Invisible Touch routine. He answered a totally different question with zero information. I didn't ask "hey do you guys think I'm ready to do this show?". So yes, I did provide everything required to give a good answer, and he gave a completely off-topic, useless, uninformed response.

4. You're used to seeing immature, unprepared kids asking for help in desperation. So does that mean you can just assume anyone asking for ideas on a routine is definitely one of those kids? No it doesn't, and you're right it isn't fair to people who are prepared and looking for advice. You didn't need to be provided with more information because I wasn't asking whether or not I was ready for the show, I was asking if anyone had creative ideas with the Invisible Touch.

5. Zambini and Miniserb725 seem to be the only ones with some intelligence and common sense around here. Thanks for participating in a helpful discussion guys.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 11:48 pm 
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didn't read any of the posts. seemed like you guys are bickering. check out derren brown's invisible touch on youtube. he does it with strippers who think they get touched by guys all the time. but he fools them into thinking it's just in their neurotic heads. i'm not sure how he does the trick but if i were him i'd be using LOOPS.


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