View Cart | View Account | Help
Order by phone: 800-880-2592
Check out our favorite NEW ARRIVALS
Need it fast? Order before 4pm Eastern and your order ships SAME DAY.

All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 19 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: A quick note about child labor laws.
PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 8:18 pm 
Offline
Penguin

Joined: 12 Feb 2005
Posts: 98
Caution:
I have only looked into this in my own state, Massachusetts, so contact a local lawyer before stating this to any restaurant or company.

Child labor laws do not apply to entertainers. I picked up a booklet at my school before summer vacation which stated at which places people can work under the ages of 18, 16, and 14. It clearly stated that entertainers can work at any age, period, as long as the person(s) are not being taken advantage of.

I have not delved deep into this subject yet, as I have yet been turned down for a gig because of labor laws; so once again, before you tell any manager or company this, talk to a local lawyer.

Good luck to everyone and their magic,
~Magically Dave


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 8:27 pm 
User avatar
Offline
Emperor Penguin

Joined: 24 Jun 2006
Posts: 6622
Location: Penguin's Most Feared Intellect
Yes, entertainers can work at any age. However, they can not work in a restaurant. That's completely different. Because they are then an employee of the restaurant. The restaurant can't hire someone under 14 years of age.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 9:17 pm 
Offline
Penguin

Joined: 12 Feb 2005
Posts: 98
Wow, ok. Thanks for the warning. I'm 14 right now and have been getting ready to approach some restaurants in my area; can they hire a 14 year old?

Thanks for the help,
~Magically Dave


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 9:26 pm 
User avatar
Offline
born to perform.

Joined: 19 May 2006
Posts: 1595
Location: San Diego
magicman300300 wrote:
Wow, ok. Thanks for the warning. I'm 14 right now and have been getting ready to approach some restaurants in my area; can they hire a 14 year old?

Thanks for the help,
~Magically Dave



im pretty sure fallingblood JUST answered that

check out his last sentence in his post


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 9:44 pm 
Offline
Penguin

Joined: 12 Feb 2005
Posts: 98
Guardian452 wrote:
magicman300300 wrote:
Wow, ok. Thanks for the warning. I'm 14 right now and have been getting ready to approach some restaurants in my area; can they hire a 14 year old?

Thanks for the help,
~Magically Dave



im pretty sure fallingblood JUST answered that

check out his last sentence in his post


He said "under 14 years of age", which, if I am not mistaken, means that anybody 13 years or younger will be automatically turned down by a restaurant. His post however does NOT state the minimal age that a person may be hired in a restaurant.

My question, of whether or not I can work, legally, at a restaurant at 14, is merely asking whether I am above or below the minimal age.

~Magically Dave


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 9:46 pm 
User avatar
Offline
born to perform.

Joined: 19 May 2006
Posts: 1595
Location: San Diego
im going to guess no

why not ask the restraunt???

wouldnt that make the most sense???


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 9:58 pm 
User avatar
Offline
Emperor Penguin

Joined: 24 Jun 2006
Posts: 6622
Location: Penguin's Most Feared Intellect
At the age of 14, you can work in a restaurant. However, you are quite limited. You can't work too many hours, I believe you need a workers permit, and I think you have to keep your grades up. There's also other stuff that you can't do. Usually, it's more of a hassle for a business, then anything else.

However, you will be advised by the professionals here to wait a couple of years. At 14, you simply aren't mature enough to handle everything that's going to go on. It's no offense to you, however, it's the simple truth.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 10:31 pm 
User avatar
Offline
Moderator

Joined: 24 Jan 2003
Posts: 4110
Location: Milford OH
fallingblood wrote:
Yes, entertainers can work at any age. However, they can not work in a restaurant. That's completely different. Because they are then an employee of the restaurant. The restaurant can't hire someone under 14 years of age.


Fallingblood you are usually very accurate, however, now you are WRONG. I am not in any way saying that magicman300300 is right either. The fallacy in your statement is "employee of the restaurant." As an entertainer I do not work for any restaurant that I appear in. If I am an employee of anybody, it is J & F productions (who also own J & F Publishing.) They are cont actors to the restaurant providing the place with professional entertainers.

BTW J & F stands for Jynx and Fluffy, my cats. And yes I do use that as the name of my business. Now every state has different laws regarding entertaining in a restaurant especially if the place serves alcohol, in some states kids can't even enter places that have the majority of their sales from liquor.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 11:08 pm 
Offline
Penguin

Joined: 12 Feb 2005
Posts: 98
Falling, you are right, I will not be able to handle every situation that comes my way. Nobody can. I do understand it will happen to me more now than it will in a couple of years when I am able to understand and handle more, but I would rather start performing earlier and have a situation once a week during which I am lost as to what to do next, than to start performing in 4 years, but only be put in a tough spot once a month. I want to start getting my name out, and have already done a 5 shows to date. I have a show coming up Tuesday working a Harry Potter Premier Party (movie, not book) at the Boston Opera House doing walk-around, the same place where I saw Copperfield perform stage about a year ago. Doing restaurant work gives me a "steady" job (although I do not really think working a restaurant 2 nights a week is something to be incredibly proud of), but the main thing is, I am getting my name out early, which means that (hopefully) by the time I get out of college I will already have a good client list, and be known to a lot of people, that way my first job can be my last. I wouldn't need to be a part-time magician for the first 5-10 years I'm out of college, I could be a full-time magician after the first year out of college. Who knows though, 10 years from now something might happen and I won't be able to perform magic and I'll be stuck doing something behind a computer for 8 hours a day 5 days a week...but what I hope to be doing...what I have been hoping of doing since I was 8...is to be a professional magician.

Anyway, sorry to ramble about my past and my hopes of my future, I just thought it should be out there so everyone here knows, as best as possible, who they're talking to.

Good luck to everyone and their magic,
~Magically Dave


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 6:26 am 
User avatar
Offline
Moderator

Joined: 24 Jan 2003
Posts: 4110
Location: Milford OH
Magicman there are some serious flaws in that argument. You don't understand a lot of things, foremost about what a restaurant magician does. You state: "I would rather start performing earlier and have a situation once a week during which I am lost as to what to do next, than to start performing in 4 years." Let's get on the right path. A restaurant magi must already be impeccable when he starts. You are not only auditioning for your next job at every table you perform at, you are representing the restaurant as their entertainer. If you screw up it makes you look bad to the customer plus it lowers your reputation to the manager of the restaurant.

Another reason you list is "I am getting my name out early, which means that (hopefully) by the time I get out of college I will already have a good client list, and be known to a lot of people, that way my first job can be my last." Same problem here. If you are just "a kid doing tricks," (which is the reputation you would get) no one will consider you for any magic gigs. Wait until you are very proficient before trying to work restaurants.

To show you how an unprepared entertainer can really hurt himself and everyone else. This happened to me this year. Every year for the last 4 years I have had a gig at a restaurant for Mother's Day and again for Fathers Day. Seeing as these were not a weekly thing I got $400 for 3 hours. Well this year when my wife called the general manager to confirm he just blew us off saying "we don't do that." This was our 5th year, I knew they did it so I dropped in and spoke to the servers that I knew there. Turned out some 15 year old kid was doing balloons just for tips on Sundays. Well he was until he approached a table and the mom was feeding her baby. Breast feeding her baby. He just stared at this woman's boob. They complained to the manager, he was fired on the spot and entertainers are not allowed in that restaurant. Don't perform until you're ready.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 1:33 pm 
User avatar
Offline
Emperor Penguin

Joined: 11 Sep 2003
Posts: 5297
Location: Canada
fallingblood wrote:
Yes, entertainers can work at any age. However, they can not work in a restaurant. That's completely different. Because they are then an employee of the restaurant. The restaurant can't hire someone under 14 years of age.


As a performer, you are a "contractor". You are responsible for the labour laws, not your customer (the restuarant). The liability falls with you as the "business owner".

8)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 1:36 pm 
User avatar
Offline
Emperor Penguin

Joined: 11 Sep 2003
Posts: 5297
Location: Canada
magicman300300 wrote:
I would rather start performing earlier and have a situation once a week during which I am lost as to what to do next, than to start performing in 4 years, but only be put in a tough spot once a month.


A professional magic gig isn't the place to better your product. It isn't the place to practice.

If you do not have finished product, you have no place selling it to anybody.

8)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 3:47 am 
Offline
Penguin

Joined: 12 Feb 2005
Posts: 98
Whoa!

Hold on everyone!

Where did I ever say that I did not know what I was doing magic wise?

When did I ever say I was planning on using a restaurant gig to practice?

To clear things up for everyone as Paddy brought to my attention that the above might have sounded off: By "situations" I mean, as Kirk Charles put best, having a man whisper an obscene proposition into my ear; NOT a type of situation where a trick would fail. I have, as most would put it, no life, I only make time for my magic, getting an hour or two of fresh air a day, my friends, and for the greatest gal in the world (and school, although I don't enjoy having to make time for it), I don't play sports on a team, play an instrument, obsess over video games, or play poker excessively. Although it is possible, it is very improbable for me to fail a sleight, a move, my patter, and frankly anything during a performance because everything I perform for an audience outside of close friends and family (to "test-run" the effect) is everything that has gone through all the stages of learning and re-learning (referring to The Magic of Ascanio: The Structural Conception of Magic). If something does fail, sh*t happens; you use a one-liner and move on.

And Paddy, I really do not appreciate being compared to some perverted 15 year old balloon artist by you when we have never met in person, seen each other perform, or just plain talk over the phone together. I accept criticism, but not when I am called and thought of as incompetent by someone who has never met me before. You can tell me that you think that my patter for my Appearing Flower to Silk routine sucks if I post it (and I'd agree with you as I hate it right now too), but do not assume things about people you have never met, I'll try not to too.

Once again Paddy; who said "I'm just a kid doing tricks"? You know nothing of my performance, my presentation, my appearance, my maturity, or the routines that I do.

Wayno, please find me the sentence in which I wrote I don't have a finished product. I wouldn't have 5 shows under my belt, stage and close up, have a gig on Tuesday doing close-up for over 500 people at a premier party, and am currently discussing with a camp coordinator about the possibility of me teaching magic at the camp (and yes I am aware of the ethics of teaching magic; all of the kids will be receiving copies of Mark Wilson's Complete Course in Magic, and only routines and effects from that book will be taught) and then perform a stage show at the end of the 4 weeks of camp. I highly doubt I would be doing any of this if I did not have a "finished product".

Just out of curiosity, how did we get so side-tracked? I went from agreeing with falling that I would not be able to handle every (NON MAGIC RELATED) situation, and that I would rather have a few embarrassing moments happen to me and do what I love doing, then to wait a few years; and now I am defending myself that I have a practiced and ready routine and people are putting words in my mouth? Pardon the question mark at the end of that, I am just very confused right now.

Not to sound condescending, but please read, and then re-read this post before posting yourself, and also make sure check that I really did say what you thought I said before quoting me on something. It's already starting to get boring and annoying defending myself against things I've never said.

Have a wonderfully magical day
~Magically Dave


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 9:18 am 
User avatar
Offline
Moderator

Joined: 24 Jan 2003
Posts: 4110
Location: Milford OH
Dave I did reread the post to see if I was mistaken when you said that you wanted to use restaurants to practice your magic in. That is what you said; to quote you;
Quote:
I would rather start performing earlier and have a situation once a week during which I am lost as to what to do next, than to start performing in 4 years, but only be put in a tough spot once a month.



Also you go on to say;
Quote:
Doing restaurant work gives me a "steady" job (although I do not really think working a restaurant 2 nights a week is something to be incredibly proud of), but the main thing is, I am getting my name out early, which means that (hopefully) by the time I get out of college I will already have a good client list, and be known to a lot of people, that way my first job can be my last. I wouldn't need to be a part-time magician for the first 5-10 years I'm out of college, I could be a full-time magician after the first year out of college. Who knows though, 10 years from now something might happen and I won't be able to perform magic and I'll be stuck doing something behind a computer for 8 hours a day 5 days a week...but what I hope to be doing...what I have been hoping of doing since I was 8...is to be a professional magician.


Now if that isn't telling us that you aren't good enough now but will be using the restaurant to practice.

The reason I brought that story up is to let you know the real damage you can do by "practicing" in a restaurant. That kid wasn't a "pervert" as you called him, he was a 14 year old that wasn't used to seeing women's boobs as did as any inexperienced kid would do. Your defensive attitude just convinces me, and others, that you really are not mature enough to perform in restaurants.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 5:03 pm 
Offline
Penguin

Joined: 12 Feb 2005
Posts: 98
I am defensive because I do need to defend myself against what was said. Paddy, I will once again say this, by situations I mean something (this will be a more realistic example) like someone throwing up on me, not my magic failing. And once again, I ask of you to not judge my maturity, or anything, through an online forum.

Also, by steady job, and perform early, I do not mean that I have nothing ready. I mean that I would rather perform as a ready 14 year old who might not be able to handle someone throwing up on me and have to leave early from the restaurant, rather than a ready 16 or 17 year old who would ask the restaurant manager if he had any extra employee shirts and keep performing for the rest of the night.

I do respect your belief that I am not mature enough, and will consider it, but the fact of the matter is, people who have seen me in person and who have seen me perform have said that I act very mature and professionally for my age. I will trust their opinions over yours because they have seen me "live" and you have seen mere postings on a Penguin Magic online forum.

If you are ever in or around the Boston area, send me a PM and we'll go out for some coffee near South Station so we can meet and show each other what we can do. Otherwise, I'd appreciate advice as to what to do at the restaurant, things that can only be learned from experience (I know Kirk Charles' book almost like the back of my hand).

So basically what I ask of you is this:

Set your beliefs aside as to whether or not you think I am mature enough and give me any advice from what you have learned over the years. I am going to be approaching managers this summer; you can choose to either help me with things you can't learn from a book, or continue to criticize me. Your choice. Don't get me wrong though, criticism is good, but keep it constructive on things that you can learn from a posting on a message board.

Good luck to you and your magic,
~Magically Dave


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 19 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2009 Penguin Magic, Inc.